# American tortured by this government
**URL:** https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076
**Category:** Society, Government, and Economics
**Created:** [November 1, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076 "2006-11-01T16:52:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Peter\_Kropotkin](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Peter_Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/1 "2006-11-01T16:52:26Z")
[today.reuters.com/news/articlene … pe=dom…](http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=dom....).
Reuters news service.
The article says that Padilla was tortured using psychotropics
drugs such as the ones they used in the 50’s, and being
sleep deprived, extreme heat or cold, being shackled for
days on ends in very uncomfortable positions. So we
now torture Americans. How very nice of us.
How very “civilized” of us. If Padilla can be tortured
[size=200]ANY[/size]
AMERICAN can be tortured. The shape of things to come
in our concentrations camps of tomorrow.
Kropotkin
---
### Author:  [@Gobbo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Gobbo)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/2 "2006-11-01T16:54:34Z")
800 prisons throughout the states are manned and ready. They are guarded 24/7 and yet… they’re all empty. There is even one in Alaska that can house 2 million ‘anti-americans’.
Something tells me it won’t be for long.
Welcome to the movies.
---
### Author:  [@thirst4metal](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/thirst4metal)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/3 "2006-11-01T17:08:57Z")
Gobbo, can you give me the address to any of these empty prisons?
Some proof would be nice…
Kropotkin, the link is broken. Fix it!
-Thirst
---
### Author:  [@Peter\_Kropotkin](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Peter_Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/4 "2006-11-01T17:17:51Z")
as I have mention before, I am technical incompetent,
I am lucky to even get this far. I honestly don’t know
how to fix it. I have posted the url? as best I can, try this
[democraticunderground.com](http://www.democraticunderground.com)
Give it a try.
Kropotkin
---
### Author:  [@Gobbo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Gobbo)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/5 "2006-11-01T17:39:40Z")
> [@thirst4metal](#):
>
> Gobbo, can you give me the address to any of these empty prisons?
> Some proof would be nice…
>
> Kropotkin, the link is broken. Fix it!
>
> -Thirst
[mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FE … 3sep04.htm](http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm)
Here’s a wild idea:
Try looking for youself next time.
---
### Author:  [@creation\_imperfect](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/creation_imperfect)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/6 "2006-11-01T18:37:41Z")
I couldn’t find the original article… but I did look up Jose Padilla on wikipedia.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José\_Padilla\_(alleged\_terrorist)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28alleged_terrorist%29)
I’m pretty sure it’s the right one, this Jose Padilla was Puerto Rican and converted to Islam. Sounds like he fulfills the government checklist of things-we-can-detain-people-for.
---
### Author:  [@thirst4metal](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/thirst4metal)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/7 "2006-11-01T18:46:58Z")
A bunch of Air Force Bases that are fully staffed and armed…
No pictures, nothing substantial…
There MUST be something going on.
As for looking for myself: quick Gobbo, someone spotted a purple unicorn and Dubya Bush together.
Go look for yourself… I’m sure you’ll find something.
When I ask for proof, I am not talking about the alcohol content of a bottle.
-Thirst
---
### Author:  [@Peter\_Kropotkin](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Peter_Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/8 "2006-11-01T21:57:47Z")
creation imperfect: I couldn’t find the original article… but I did look up Jose Padilla on wikipedia.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José\_Padilla\_(alleged\_terrorist)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28alleged_terrorist%29)
I’m pretty sure it’s the right one, this Jose Padilla was Puerto Rican and converted to Islam. Sounds like he fulfills the government checklist of things-we-can-detain-people-for."
K: I thank you creation imperfect for this. It does address the
issue of being tortured by our government and mind you
this torture of an American citizen is being done in your
name and for your safety.
Kropotkin
---
### Author:  [@Sagesound](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Sagesound)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/9 "2006-11-01T21:59:15Z")
11.01.06.1641
> [@Old\_Gobbo](#):
>
> [mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FE … 3sep04.htm](http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm)
Those “Executive Orders” are scary. For real, what would it take to put the country on complete lockdown and turn freedom into tyranny? Perhaps [this](http://www.deathofapresident.com/)?? That docu-fake is even scarier… it makes Bush’s enemies want to make sure Bush lives and completes his term.
---
### Author:  [@Phaedrus](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Phaedrus)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/10 "2006-11-01T22:00:57Z")
The current administration has done a lot to demolish the Bill of Rights along with the rest of the Constitution. My suspicion is that Bush has basically screwed the Republican Party, too- it’s hard to imagine how his mis-handling of Iraq won’t cost them control of Congress.
Those that perpetrate torture on their own citizens should be held criminally accountable for their actions. No matter how high up the chain you have to go.
---
### Author:  [@Gobbo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Gobbo)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/11 "2006-11-01T22:28:37Z")
> [@thirst4metal](#):
>
> A bunch of Air Force Bases that are fully staffed and armed…
> No pictures, nothing substantial…
> There MUST be something going on.
>
> As for looking for myself: quick Gobbo, someone spotted a purple unicorn and Dubya Bush together.
> Go look for yourself… I’m sure you’ll find something.
>
> When I ask for proof, I am not talking about the alcohol content of a bottle.
>
> -Thirst
What the hell is wrong with you?
It’s this 10 year old Thirst that I don’t like. Like com’n, we’re not getting anywhere with your useless banter.
Even Phaedrus is coming around. Please grow up and engage this conversation on some sort of level of desirable input.
---
### Author:  [@thirst4metal](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/thirst4metal)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/12 "2006-11-01T22:44:10Z")
Gobbo, there is a reason our interactions are often childish. I am not the sole reason.
> [@Phaedrus](#):
>
> it’s hard to imagine how his mis-handling of Iraq won’t cost them control of Congress.
It’s called gerrymandering.
“Viva la revolution!”
> [@Phaedrus](#):
>
> Those that perpetrate torture on their own citizens should be held criminally accountable for their actions. No matter how high up the chain you have to go.
I agree completely. But we need proof. The type of proof that is demanded in court.
Anything less is a sham, a joke, a misdeed.
Accusations are not proof. Conjecture is not proof. Coincidence is not proof.
Either we follow the law or we don’t. If we choose not to, then no crime is committed anywhere.
-Thirst
---
### Author:  [@Peter\_Kropotkin](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Peter_Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/13 "2006-11-01T22:52:52Z")
thirst4metal:
I agree completely. But we need proof. The type of proof that is demanded in court.
Anything less is a sham, a joke, a misdeed.
Accusations are not proof. Conjecture is not proof. Coincidence is not proof.
Either we follow the law or we don’t. If we choose not to, then no crime is committed anywhere."
K: the problem is congress has abdicated its constitutional
duty to investigate wrongdoings of the executive branch.
Congress won’t investigate the loss of over 10 BILLION
dollars in Iraq, won’t investigate corporate corruption in
Iraq. Congress won’t even investigate its own corruption
in the ethics committee as required by law. As congress
is run by the GOP, it stands to reason that the GOP
won’t investigate because it would expose the GOP as
incredibly corrupt.
Kropotkin
---
### Author:  [@Phaedrus](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Phaedrus)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/14 "2006-11-01T23:50:44Z")
Sorry to burst your bubble, Gobbo, but I ain’t ready to drink your Kool-Aid just yet. 😆 Seriously, OG- did you honestly tell Thirst to get in his car and drive around til he finds these secret prisons? Have you ever been to the US? Be a sport- at least give up a few addresses. Shouldn’t be very hard since there’s so many of them. At any rate, you always claim to have sources the rest of us don’t have, so is it reasonable to think Thirst will find them without your expertise?
I too would need some evidence before I laid the blame for all the actions of the CIA on Bush. Of course, stuff like this has probably always happened in this country and around the world. We just hear about it a lot more nowadays.
---
### Author:  [@Phaedrus](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Phaedrus)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/15 "2006-11-01T23:52:50Z")
I don’t understand your partisonism, PK. The Democrats are just as corrupt; you’ll probably get the chance to see that in action when they win back control of congress in a week.
I’ll try not to say “I told you so” any more often than is necessary.
---
### Author:  [@Gobbo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Gobbo)
#### Post date: [November 1, 2006, 11:57pm UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/16 "2006-11-01T23:57:29Z")
Of course.
Sit around and wait for the proof. I mean what good is me typing all this stuff out? We all know that for any opinion to be swayed, ever, the evidence must be presented within a legal paradigm that you simply assume is without flaw or corruption.
I mean it’ll obviously get to you before it’s too late right? There’s no way you’ll be in a situation you don’t want, that you can’t get out of, without being presented with the evidence first.
Whew, I was worried for a sec.
Sorry everyone, let’s just sit around and wait for the -clear- evidence. Simply forget about the pure jibberish I appear to be talking about as that’s all it is – pure, and total rubbish.
---
### Author:  [@Phaedrus](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Phaedrus)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/17 "2006-11-02T00:02:01Z")
Why is that always your first tactic, OG? You always claim to “know stuff”, but when pressed you always just say someday we’ll all see you’re right. I dunno what your religion is but you’d make an excellent Catholic- do as I say simply because I said it, or God’s gonna get you.
In past threads you’ve even cited these prisons in places that I can infer must be very close to where I live. If that’s so, they must be cloaked or underground. I wonder if you’ve ever been to the US, and if so I wonder how much of it you’ve actually seen.
---
### Author:  [@Gobbo](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Gobbo)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/18 "2006-11-02T00:11:04Z")
I act this way because I do know things that you don’t.
Sorry if that makes you insecure, but I do. Just accept it. I’m sure you know tons of stuff about being a sue-chef (including how to spell it likely) but I don’t respond with a joke EVERY SINGLE TIME pretending to know shit that I don’t because of the fact that I don’t.
If you don’t think the prisons are actually there – if you truly don’t believe me, or think me to be some crazy kid, then why do you talk to me? Go and sit on your couch and watch corporate news and be happy in ignorance.
If you’re so unafraid of your government, then don’t listen to me, sit around and wait for them to enslave you. At this point, I can’t feel bad as I’ve done as much as I can.
This goes beyond my ‘tone of voice’ or the validity of the information I’m presenting. LOOK INTO IT YOURSELF. That’s the only way you’re going to believe me anyways. I cannot show you the ‘evidence’ because you see it from reading between the lines; from piecing together the different pieces.
I mean this people arn’t dumb… do you think they’d allow me to have some irrefutable document that would prove everything I’m saying correct? Give your head a shake…
---
### Author:  [@thirst4metal](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/thirst4metal)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/19 "2006-11-02T00:11:18Z")
> [@Old\_Gobbo](#):
>
> We all know that for any opinion to be swayed, ever, the evidence must be presented within a legal paradigm that you simply assume is without flaw or corruption.
The law is a guide. It is not flawless or incorruptible. But it has its virtues.
The framework for law, for evidence, proof, etc. is on solid ground.
Also, with your sarcasm, do you really think I will stop interacting with you on a childish basis?
You have revealed yourself a child.
-Thirst
---
### Author:  [@Peter\_Kropotkin](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/u/Peter_Kropotkin)
#### Post date: [November 2, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076/20 "2006-11-02T00:16:18Z")
As I too have reported the fact that secret prisons have
been built, it must means I have been “gobboize” too.
Not at all. I am a realist. I have study history and
know that the conditions that created Nazi germany
can occur again and I believe have actually been occuring
in the U.S for the last few years. History does repeat
itself and we seem to be repeating the worst part of history.
I am not optimistic about our near future, but
we have a chance in the far future.
Kropotkin
[Next page](https://www.ilovephilosophy.com/t/american-tortured-by-this-government/14076.md?page=2)