An Affirmative Case for Natural Rights

I am resolved, as was Locke, Jefferson, Rand, and many other philosophers; that all humans are, as humans, unique and equal; and that it follows from this that they have a natural right to life, which means the right to freely pursue the qualitative happiness symptomatic of the fullest flourishment of life.

A “right” is a moral concept. It has no meaning outside of the context of morality, and morality requires an understanding of terms such as “value” and “freedom” to be meaningful. A value presupposes an entity for which something can be of value, and such an entity must have the freedom to choose that value or work against it inorder for morality to have meaning or applicability. First, I want to discuss that concept of “value,” how it can only be applied to living things. Second, I want to discuss how only human living things have the “freedom” which requires morality and rights.

  1. The concept of “value” does not apply to non-living things. A rock does not have anything to gain or lose. It may change it’s form but never cease to exist. Living things, however, do have something to lose, their life. Life is a process which must be sustained. It is a built-in, intrinsic value for living things. If action is not taken to preserve and promote the life of an organism, it dies. So, value can be applied to living things.

This is not enough yet to make the concept of morality meaningful. If a living thing does not have the freedom to choose not to pursue its intrinsic value, then its actions in promoting and protecting its life, its intrinsic value, are still descriptive, not prescriptive. It makes no sense to tell a tree that it ought to pursue life. A tree does that anyhow. Most living things do whatever their natures allow to protect and promote their lives. It, therefore, makes no sense to say living things have a" right" to attempt to survive. Moral terms are not applicable to living things which must do what they do by their natures.

  1. Human beings are different. They have some automatic functions but not enough to flourish. Human beings must cultivate their language and an ability to reason, and they must choose to employ reason or accept the consequences of not employing reason. Humans must use their judgment. Their natures are not complete. With their freedom, they participate in creating their own natures within generalizable parameters. Some of those parameters include respecting the “rights” other humans to participate in creating their own natures.

The idea of respecting human rights is included in Kant’s philosophy, in the categorical imperative and in the dictum that one ought to treat each individual as an end, not as a means. It is included in Sartre’s philosophy when he says that choices we make are made for everybody. This is just another version of the categorical imperative, that one ought not do what one would not prescribe for anyone else in that situation to do. It was a way of keeping his relativism from becoming too personal, too private, too irrelevant. Versions of the golden rule are other ways of looking at respecting equal, human rights. We shouldn’t do to others what we don’t want them to do to us. It is the libertarian ideal of doing whatever we want as long as we allow others to also do what they want. We have a right to pursue happiness but not by violating another person’s right to pursue happiness. That is what is meant by “equal” right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is a condition of existence required for the proper survival of all human beings. That is what is meant by “natural” or “unalienable”

I open myself to questions.

bis bald,

Nick

Just kidding!

Buck up. It’s a slow day on the board. It follows from this that no one is responding.

fausty

Perhaps everybody agrees with me. Or, they find my case so sound that they can’t even attempt to refute it.

bis bald,

Nick

One question about the sorts of things that have value- Can humans instill things with value that did not have it before? If an object, idea, or institution is seen as very important to large numbers of humans, does that object have value, and warrant moral consideration? What about things specifically constructed by humans?

[quote=“NickOtani”]
I am resolved, as was Locke, Jefferson, Rand, and many other philosophers; that all humans are, as humans, unique and equal; and that it follows from this that they have a natural right to life, which means the right to freely pursue the qualitative happiness symptomatic of the fullest flourishment of life.

Well one can say that is an assumption, if one accepts that we are unique and equal (which one doesn’t have to)why does it follow that we have the natural right to life? Perhaps we are unique in that we are alone as thinking beings in a chaotic universe, some individuals invested with more qualities to survive the struggle than others. So we are equal in that we are the same species BUT surely it could be argued some are more equal than others.

Can one claim as a human being outside the concept of society yeah I have free will so I have the ‘right’ to pursue happiness and the right to life? Basically my point is it is a right that is natural and inalienable or one bestowed by society

Ultimately I think something has to give you a right, either God or the State.

What do others think?

Non-living objects can have instrumental value to humans, because humans value them, but objects don’t value other things. They just are. Money is valuable as a means of exchange and for other things humans can do with it, but money doesn’t strive, itself, to reach self-generated and self sustained goals that it can lose.

No, there is evidence that humans, and perhaps a few apes, are the only living creatures to volitionally manipulate symbols in a structured form. This facilitates thinking on a conceptual level. And, it allows for the creativity principle to work, for meaningful sentences to be constructed which were never before constructed, as Chomsky explains. It is not just an assumption. And, it is not just an assumption that certain conditions of existence are required for flourishing survival of humans, as humans. Finally, it is not relevant that some humans have greater abilities or talents than other humans. It does not make them more or less human and, thus, deserving of different rights.

As a condition of existence for the flourishing survival of humans in groups, human rights are natural, not bestowed by society. Society can violate natural rights, as they did in Nazi Germany and as they did in societies where there were slaves. Natural rights are still being violated by many societies which don’t recognize them, but that doesn’t mean those rights don’t exist and that the proper function of governments is not to secure them, not bestow them or take them away.

You have natural rights by virtue of being human.

Bis bald,

Nick

Danchoo - I tried this one already - good luck. You’re right - it does not follow from the premise that all humans are equal that we all have a right to life. It is just not a valid implication. It isn’t, Nick. Isn’t isn’t isn’t.

Just isn’t. You (Nick), according to the science of mathematics (logic) are simply missing a few prmises.

You need here:

All humans are equal in at least one way.
One of the ways in which we are equal allows and requires access to the right to life, if such a right exists.
The right exists.
At least one person has this right.

That’s just what logic requires here. Perhaps it can be stated more elegantly - I’m pretty trashed (talk about your spelling edits - this is taking forever to write). I don’t make the news, I only report it.

f

quote NickOtani No, there is evidence that humans, and perhaps a few apes, are the only living creatures to volitionally manipulate symbols in a structured form. This facilitates thinking on a conceptual level. And, it allows for the creativity principle to work, for meaningful sentences to be constructed which were never before constructed, as Chomsky explains. It is not just an assumption. And, it is not just an assumption that certain conditions of existence are required for flourishing survival of humans, as humans.

So if one accepts your argument in theory, these few apes have the natural right to life and the pursuit of happiness too? And if not why not?

No, if all humans are equal, qua humans, then if one human has a right to the conditions of existence for the flourishing survival humans; then they all do. It’s that simple.

bis bald,

Nick

Okay, so you don’t want to argue for the existence of the right. What’s your argument that at least one human has this right that you have assumed exists?

I am totally leaving aside the need to define “equality” (it’s not equality of mass or density, right?). Just to make it easy.

f

Yes. If they are rational beings with free-will, then morality applies to them as it does to us. They should not do to others what they would not want done to them.

bis bald,

Nick

I’ve already argued for the existence of conditions of existence for the flourishing survival of humans in groups, rights derived from the right to life. You don’t seem to understand the nature of rights as a moral concept which can only apply to living things which are rational and free. It is what we “ought” to recognize if we are going to flourish. Trees don’t have rights because they are not free.

We are equal as creatures with the potential to be rational, even though some of us, like yourself, are a little more dense than others, and free. Murdering an Asian in Asia is no more or less significant than murdring an American in Spokane. Is this easy enough for you?

bis bald,

Nick

Oh ok! I havent heard that one before, inalienable human rights and also simian rights too it would appear.

However just for clarity, how does one qualify for these rights again.

1.Being able to:
quoteNick Otani volitionally manipulate symbols in a structured form. This facilitates thinking on a conceptual level. And, it allows for the creativity principle to work, for meaningful sentences to be constructed which were never before constructed,

as you said in your previous post

2 Or being rational beings with free will and knowing they should not do to others as they do not want done to them as you said in your last post

Personally Im not sure how either leads to natural rights but I would be interested which is the fundamental link

But Nick I would say to you, its not THAT important if humans have a ‘natural’ right to life and pursuit of happiness because you can still claim that it is human nature to exist in society and I would argue that it is society which then bestows that right…or not. So yes you can say it is a natural consequence of our nature that we derive that right but it is contingent on us being a member of a society. So it is not inalienable

[/quote]

That wasn’t my question. You have argued for conditions of existence blah blah blah - and you say these are derived from the natural right to life. I am asking you what your argument is for this right to life itself. I may be dense, but not dense enough to be put off by this legerdemain. Such as it is. It is just that we “ought” to recognise this right? Are you serious? That is not an argument. Just isn’t. Again, I’m not making the news, here. I am also not so dense as to mistake this for an argument. Do I have to get out a dictionary, young man?

There are more ways than that to “flourish”. I am trying to take you seriously, here. All I ask is that you take me seriously, as well.

f

I dont understand why a rational case needs to be made, or why its important to. Having a rock-solid natural rights argument isnt going to stop anyone from whatever horrible rights violations they are going to commit. It seems like this analysis is a reaction to theists arguing that without God there can be no rights or some similar nonsense, and then being a good philosopher you try to answer with a rock-solid case. But of course, you’ll never be able to make a rock-solid case - because there is none. Someone will always pick a hole in the ship, and the ship will go nowhere.

When from a pragmatic standpoint, all you need is the right marketing plan and this viewpoint will become reality. So stop straining your brain over this and start preaching in the streets, gift bags help too.

anvil - That’s exactly what this analysis, as you generously put it, is attempting to do. Welcome to Rationalism 101.

faust

Yes, I understand that. But Im also making a more generalized, and perhaps more important statement that I believe that rationalism at some level is a self-defeating viewpoint. How can one state anything rationally that could not be rationally deconstructed?

Rationalism as a philosophy is at its core: logic and a set of facts/premises, logic isnt the hard part, facts and premises are. Two rationalists could argue from the same logic, but different premises ad infinitum. And if a rationalist were able to read his/her own argument “objectively”, they could doubt forever it as well, so making any certain statements from a rationalist standpoint seems to contradict rationalism.

Futhermore, rationalism, as a answer to theism, is flawed from the outset because rationalists attempt to make rational arguments to argue vs. theists making un-rational arguments.

That being said, rationalism is great as a exploratory tool, and as a alternative perspective from theism, and definitely a great tool for attacking thiesm. But lets not start pretending that it provides a foundation from which we can build a equivalent to theism (but without needing God).

I dont know, maybe im not getting it - I certainly havent taken Rationalism 101 ;]

you get it just fine… “rationalism” requires a leap of faith just as theism does… and so does “science” …

-Imp

anvildoc - I agree. With you and Imp. Good luck convincing a rationalist. You presumably will have your chance with Nick. Good luck.

I think the research on apes in inconclusive at the moment, but if they are rational beings, then they are moral agents. As I said in my first post in this thread, rights are a moral concept and cannot be applied to entities which are not rational and free. If apes are rational and free, able to volitionally manipulate symbols in a structured form, then conditions of their existence in pursuing a flourishing survival is to recognize the rights of other rational and free creatures to do the same.

Remember, I said, “Most living things do whatever their natures allow to protect and promote their lives. It, therefore, makes no sense to say living things have a" right" to attempt to survive. Moral terms are not applicable to living things which must do what they do by their natures.” I went on to say that humans were different. “They have some automatic functions but not enough to flourish. Human beings must cultivate their language and an ability to reason, and they must choose to employ reason or accept the consequences of not employing reason. Humans must use their judgment. Their natures are not complete. With their freedom, they participate in creating their own natures within generalizable parameters. Some of those parameters include respecting the “rights” other humans to participate in creating their own natures. “ If apes also develop this volitional ability to reason, then they have a moral obligation to employ it, as humans do.

You can try to argue that society bestows rights, but that has been done before. Nazi Germany defended its actions by saying its society determined what was just and not. At the Nuremburg trials, however, this was not enough of a defense for atrocities against mankind. There is a sense of justice which transcends what society, whatever that is, says. Universal principles such as the categorical imperative, the golden rule, rational egoism, and natural rights theory are attempts to articulate that sense of justice. This is what I said in my initial post:

I can’t take you seriously, faust. You will take my rational arguments and say something like, “rationality is a myth, a fiction.” That may be true on one level of discourse, but it can’t be proven without rational argument. If you are just going to spout opinions without justifying them, then I don’t think we can have a dialogue.

I did go carefully over, in my initial post in this thread, how value and morality can be coherent and how it applies to humans in the form of conditions of existence, natural rights. You keep ignoring it and saying I haven’t offered an argument for a natural right to life. Your saying this doesn’t make it true. It simply shows your lack of comprehension.

Bis bald,

Nick