An At-Large Congress

Consider the following system for electing the members of Congress:

  • Each voter gets 3 votes, so they can vote for three people to represent them (i.e. can’t vote three times for the same person).
  • Any person getting more than 1 million votes becomes a member of congress.
  • Of the resulting pool of congressional representatives, the top 20% by vote count constitute the Senate, and the rest constitute the House of Representatives.

Currently, congressional representation is geographic: Senators represent the state, and Representatives represent a specific geographical area within a state. Geographic representation made more sense at the time of the founding, when states thought of themselves as truly sovereign nations, and people’s lives and social networks were hyper-local. A geographically defined group had a meaningful commonality of interest, and states-as-sovereigns effectively sent diplomats to ensure their interests were protected. But now, the system feels odd. The 17th Amendment made Senators less tied to the state-qua-state, and more to the state as a geographic constituency. State sovereignty has been significantly curtailed by centuries of expanding federal power. People think of themselves as being citizens of the US first and of a state second (if at all). Moreover, House districts are gerrymandered to hell, they do not plausibly represent any community and have become another avenue of vote suppression and party power consolidation.

The system I propose above seeks to address the mismatch by replacing it with at-large voting for all members of Congress; each member represents a self-identified constituency, defining itself on whatever dimension it finds important. A geographic community could still elect a representative if its membership were coherent enough to rally around a representative. But so could a religion, a race, an internet subculture, or a group affected by a specific niche issue. Each person gets more than one vote in part because they are part of more than one such community. They could endorse a candidate who will reflect their religious values, one who will represent their industry, and one who will champion a particularly meaningful cause. It encourages a certain type of diversity of constituency, since it rewards candidates that stake out a particular niche to represent. Simultaneously, it diffuses some of the tyranny of the majority concerns, since majorities will be less unified on their second and third candidates than on their first, and so make coalition building more fluid and less sclerotic.

The separation of the resulting pool into a Senate and a House achieves a few additional goals. First, it keeps the rest of US government as it is, minimizing changes that e.g. going to a unicameral legislature would require. It encourages people to vote for a candidate they know will clear the threshold either way, and weights power by vote count while still preserving the equality of votes within each house. Senate will still be smaller and senators will represent more people, and in some sense will represent the larger identities in our society, while the larger House gets input from the rabble of smaller identities and issues. And, if I may be permitted, there is an aesthetic benefit to having a House that represents many diverse constituencies, and a Senate that represents fewer large constituencies that transcend them; a House of the pluribus, and a Senate of the unum.

For similarly aesthetic reasons, I count as a benefit the fact that this system would produce a Congress of varying size: when the people are more of the same mind, Congress is smaller, and hones in the issues that remain; as unity of purpose falls, Congress increases to capture that diversity of opinion.

The numbers I picked are not necessary to the idea, but neither are they totally without reason. They were targeted towards achieving the benefits described above, while keeping the size of Congress similar to what it is today (535, 435 in the House and 100 in the Senate). In the last presidential election, there were about 160 million votes, which under this system would produce 480 million votes, for a maximum of 480 members of congress, with 96 in the Senate and 384 in the House. That’s an unlikely result, however, as many will get much more than 1 million votes, and we might need to run simulations to see what results in the best balance of average size and representativeness.

One issue of note with this system is that it assumes all members of Congress are elected simultaneously, which isn’t the case. There are a number of ways to address this, but some may undermine the benefits of the system. For example, if a third of seats were elected in each cycle, each large constituency could expect 3 members of congress representing it, since they would presumably be able to get a representative of their choosing into congress in each cycle; we could adjust the numbers to account for this, but could not achieve as representative a Congress at the same size. But it could also introduce an interesting dynamic of moving members between houses mid-term, as the size of Congress and the vote-threshold for being in Senate changes.

I am sure I am missing other issues as well, but I assert that this would do a better job representing the interest of US Citizens in our legislature than the current system does, and would solve many problems with our democracy.

Welcome back to your boards Carleas.

The two problems you missed are exposure and prime factorization.

Exposure is a media issue. It’s determined by money/special interests/propaganda.

Encryption has gotten to the point of more known particles in the known universe… except for the people who set it. They have 100% decryption. I don’t mean to sound conspiratorial here… I wouldn’t even trust myself with that much power. We need a different voting system.

I’ve proposed a digital archive that allows a person to check whether their vote is what they voted without anyone else able to check it but them.

This would require tax payers to support voting centers in thousands of cities that are open year round .

I’ve thought a lot about this too Carleas

Let’s exchange notes.

Carleas,

Please pardon my interruption, but I replied here and wanted to make sure you saw it:
ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.p … 3#p2870463

I take it you mean something about the issue that who people vote for is determined by who they’ve heard of, and that’s controlled by powerful interests. I think that’s true, but I think this system actually solves this problem.

A centralized media can pretty easily force a ‘most recognized person’, but it has a harder time forcing the second or third place person. Under the system I propose above, instead of trying to prevent the media from pushing a favored candidate, you let them and let that person end up as one of many. The media narrative might be able to force someone into the top 20% of vote getters, but they will have a harder time hand-picking all of them than they do in a system where they can just restrict who’s on the ballot. Even if they try to force dozens of candidates, even among the elites alignment begins to break down, i.e. they may broadly agree on who the best person is or what the best policy is, but they also have disagreements that will lead to them backing different slates of candidates.

The problem is… you’re talking about omniscient realms and not human realms.

Technically it’s called a pan-telepathic realm.

In human realms … humans are dictated by their few options, and those options only come from corporate conglomerates.

Since every nation across the world knows that US elections are between 50 to 100% rigged - I don’t think any such election schemes make the slightest difference.

Carleas.

Has it ever occurred to you the odds in existence for a presidential election would be decided by a few hundred votes in a single county?

Those odds are greater than all the known particles in the known universe.

That’s how G.W. Bush won. He even lost the electoral college.

Now it’s become way more sophisticated how to rig elections for the belief and entertainment of the masses.

This is wrong. Electoral outcomes are not chosen randomly, they’re the product of repeated games played by groups of rational actors who will change their strategy in response to past results. In a two-party system where the parties can shift their platform in response to the previous election, we should expect most elections to be pretty close. See the the Median Voter Theorem, Hotelling’s Law, Downs’ Economic Theory of Democracy; none of these are perfect, but they provide a theoretical basis for the prediction that democratic elections will tend towards an equilibrium of very similar candidates whose vote share approaches 50-50.

Claims US elections are rigged are completely baseless, at least insofar as they allege that the rigging happens in the vote tallying. This may be changing as legislatures around the country dismantle election infrastructure, politicize their operation, remove oversight, and seek to disenfranchise disfavored voting blocs. But as of 2020, we have very good reason to believe that our elections were reliable and trustworthy, because they underwent a hostile review in which motivated investigators sought to uncover anything they could spin as vote rigging. Those efforts failed.

That is not to say that they aren’t rigged in the sense that candidates for office must pass through fairly selective filters, so that certain qualified candidates are effectively ineligible (including on the basis of their policy positions). But constraining choices and then running a fair election between them is different in kind from running an unfair election. I would call this difference one of ‘gaming’ vs. ‘rigging’: in the first, you play by the rules but use them to restrict the range of outcomes; in the second, you break the rules.

The difference matters here, where we are discussing a proposal to change the rules. It would not be worth discussing changing the rules if they were not going to be followed.

Carleas,

I think The New Game conveyed as such, would be impractical for the reasons enumerated above, due to frequent ‘ memory lapses’ which conveniently side step the problem of identification of a proportional balance between the state and the US government, and that proportionality may not be ‘realized’ because of the stasis of suspicion, brought up by EC, that is at the present a huge bar, as far as identifying the true identity of a congressional mix.

But truthfully, the passage of time, flowing toward the digitalization of public awareness of a media representation, will effect a demolition of overwrought and unproportional description , with a motive to change the prescribed imbalance.

That balancing act that is the hindrance in your description, within an increasing span of time, will afford to effect public sentiment, so as to break down that either this or that reasoning of current unbreakable resistance.

The groundwork would have to be introduced in the senate, ratified by them , and they would in all probability most resistant to l transfer power to the states.

It is a novel idea, to say the least.

The point being is that given enough time, the ‘machine, across party lines, will demote exaggerated media infused models of electorate choices, with the digitalization of reactive public sentiment, as more realistic models are exposed.

The theoretical regional models, will reinvigorate a functional grass roots sentiment, as voter involvement will overcome the various bars inhibiting such.

Also, Carleas, the balancing act between the parties , will at least nominally at first, will tend to react to reactions where both sides of the political spectrum may want to give more creedence to aleanated marginal, heretofore silent minorities, who may begin to share some political weight permeating from unresolved exclusive interests’ power struggle which exclude most substantive forms of I’ll represented voter value, in the process and utilization in the process of registering and actually participating in the vote.

This is a stretch, but marginal groups tend to share apathy , as more doubt about verification of results reinforce the tendency to stay away from voting, as the individual vote will appear to loose value.

It is suggested that with less ‘fake news’ creating illusive reality of individual voters’ verifiable effect of regionally derived effects , will show the biased subcommittees who analyze and are instrumental in suggesting change to Congress, that yes, the system may not be rigged, but certainly the self interested libbies are instrumental in retaining the status quo.

The Senate may be forced to accede to ways and means to appropriate necessary different methods to figure out tha representational configuration, letting go of outmoded and politically incorrect ways, that keeps society marginalized, increasing social and political uncertainty and polarization.

Why does voting matter when both Politicians are owned by the same Owner?

All you have is an illusion of choice called “Our Democracy”. You cannot actually vote your way out of this.

:text-yeahthat:

I’m completely disillusioned by it all.
Even in other countries when someone tries to be different, western powers stage coups and invasions to destroy them.
If you look with clear eyes at the actions of the US government, setting aside their explanations, you’ll see a long history of atrocity.

I’ve heard of the bicameral mind theory Carleas.

I don’t buy it. Do only 50% of people believe in gravity (give or take 1%)?

A hive mind divided will not stand.

Js.

#platformNOW

How many queen bees are there and am I her partner?

What’s interesting to me is that nobody spoke before me that consent violation is the only possible problem for every possible being.

That puts me in a very unique position. I’ll explain this later.

The most glaring consent issue in human sexuality is approach escalation in the hetero or bi population. Which is a solid 90% of people. Because of sex dimorphism on the heterosexual part…

Women losing interest when a man doesn’t escalate turns all hetero relationships into no means yes.

I don’t believe anyone wants to be sexually assaulted or harassed. The problem is…. And it’s a fact…

There’s always a tinge of no means yes in every heterosexual pairing.

This is enough to put a man’s mind in complete meltdown mode.

Women have sex with what they complain about, and never have sex with what they don’t complain about.

Just because you use approach escalation as a man doesn’t mean the woman accepts because of preferences and such. However, all sex in human history has only occurred because of that tinge of no means yes.

How do I sit with being the person who found that fact for the whole cosmos - raising female encryption so people don’t violate consent to get laid more?

The unique position I’m in…. My genius is finding problems and solving them for the whole of all existence. But I couldn’t get a woman if my life depended upon it.

What is my coping mechanism? I’m not autistic btw….

I had to acknowledge that people have mental handicaps. A woman can agree 100% with everything I say and really enjoy my company…. But she’s not evil for refusing sex…. She’s mentally handicapped.

It’s the action part that matters….

If I’m stranded on an island with one other person and we both know coconuts will keep us alive and we both say we want to live, but the other person refuses to eat and drink the coconuts…. They are crazy making.

That is the human female…. Crazy making.

But they’re not going to make me crazy.

Except when you have it as the last man staring down, on the bitch
(ditch)

Oops pardon

On the beach

youtu.be/Uzu_LezGQYQ

Are you Dr. Ryan meno?

No Ryan was a miss spell.
anyway my memory as to whom I might be or, whom

I could have been will not reoccur until that last day.

even if, it does last

I looked him up for are several on gooogle and they are as diverse as ca be and there is really no telling who canby is.

. Pretend there was something here.

or, not .

But women can make one go almost to the absolute, edge.

…but only if you, wanna.