an automated society

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
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an automated society

within 20 years i think it will be possible to fully automate farming and manufacturing, well everything apart from jobs which require humans e.g. restaurants.

much of politics would no longer be required, but more importantly, it would show us that the system is like a machine and its product is wealth.

it would also show us that wealth distribution is simply a matter of sharing that product, and that doesnt mean taxing the rich. it simply means that a fair proportion of that wealth would be given to everyone. where at the moment, analogously, its a bit like a fountain, where those at the top catch the most of the fountains waters.

yet this is not the whole picture, most of the money produced [all mortgages and investments the banks etc get] is not the wages bill.

if then our wages are not or thence wont be directly connected to the product, we dont really need ‘wages’, we just work and get an amount of money to spend. this rather than paying mortgages or for things to be produced or built [housing].

we wont require banks as they are now, the govt would distribute wealth such that businesses would get the money they require.

no taxes required, because services would be paid for directly from the wealth pool [the fountain]. equally our money wouldnt be worth more than a given others. a loaf of bread bought somewhere in africa would have the same value as one bought in the EU.

no real need for monetary unions either, because everything would be the same, there need only be wealth pools. then we dont need to worry about mass immigration because people wouldnt be forced or goaded into moving to richer nations.

which is all well and good, because i just dont see how you can stop complete freedom of movement, when we will all have flying vehicles light enough to fold up into a suitcase sized package - no parking required. tbh i have already designed such craft, but we are not quite there with the supermaterials and 3D carbonite printers etc. oh and i am too poor to build em lols.

  • i dont know why cameron is going to build high speed rail networks lol, talk about short-sighted. :-"
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20 years??? Katrina wiped out the Mississippi coast in 12 hours, we are still rebuilding. What you propose will take a few more generations at the very least. I would guess two more centuries.

3

:-$

4

don’t you guys realise how fast things are moving these days!

point being that it only takes a few inventions [i’ll show you some once I have composed the images to show how it can occur] to ‘make the changes you want to see in the world’. 3D point clouds already exist, the police use them to map crime scenes, and archeologists to map monuments. its only a matter of time before computers/video cameras, can live map features and objects, or in short ‘see’!

once that occurs [5-10 years] then computers and robotic tech will be able to build whatever humans can. multi-material 3D printers will be here by 2017 apparently. if not then all of this is still only a decade away at best.

3D carbonite printers [5-10 years away] will build engines and fabrics 5 times stronger than steel and as light as plastic, so all you need to do then is build wankel rotary engines [like used in the mazda7 sports car] for power, and laminates for micro wings [hidden within the fuselage], then boom you are off the ground with a light weight fuel efficient vehicle. the wings can be built with three layers of superfabrics, the middle layer being hexagons with triangular flaps, such that on the upstroke of a wing [e.g. moving like a dragonfly or butterfly but more slowly due to size] air passes freely saving fuel, and fold down for maximum lift on the down stroke. it all comes down to power-weight as you all know.

imho the prime ministers [Cameron] trains will be out of date before being finished, and his [most all] politics will equally be redundant.

the only way this wont happen in the next decade, would be if people try to stop it or don’t support it. however if the west don’t advance rapidly you can bet your life china will.

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Damn dude, you just lost every bit of respect you could possibly ever earn. This was not only a ad hominem but a stupid one. Not even clever… Just sad.

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They are already working on automated restaurants.

Money doesn’t work that way.

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Sure, but I just meant that with some things people want to be served by human beings. Though personally I would ban any such thing ~ but I am a bit extreme, maybe some people like serving others. Then again if one didn’t ‘have to’ , weren’t coerced or whatever, and an individual still wanted to serve others, then so be it.

Surely wealth is the product of an economy? I know money used to be based off gold or silver, but the bank of England sold much of its gold because that is not the case now. If we digitalised money, then the worth of each credit would be [in real terms, not fabricated ones] a proportion of the gross product, assumedly.

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You forget the costs involved with advances. The investment must be made back before prices can be lowered for general public. Its not a written must just a given must. That little cell phone you can buy at Walmart, was around back when I was in my twenties. Only the wealthiest could afford it. 30 years later , just about anyone can

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You’d respect me if I had made the ad hom witty? Hid it a little more? Or if I illustrate in every post how fabulous I am?

‘I rate that ad hom 1 out of 10. I can’t respect that!’

:laughing:

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Kriswest

I agree advances are costly with the current set-up, my thinking was that once you have computers/video-cams which can ‘see’, then you don’t need a human workforce. I had equally made the assumption that by that time robotics and industrial machinery would have also advanced to the degree required to outperform humans.

Once we arrive at an automated industrial base etc, then there is no reason why costs would be human related, and so you don’t need an economy which has to pay some people massive wages and some poor wages. Essentially I am seeing such a society as a way of breaking free from a wage based economy, as the whole thing would be a machine – in a manner of speaking.

If in 20 years time we all got flyers [flying vehicles], that would make a mockery of all those artificial lines we draw upon maps, and financial regions.

Admittedly it would only be the start of the revolution in society, but at least its a revolution that doesn’t require bloodshed!

  • here’s being hopeful.
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Alright, but, I think you are forgetting human needs to group and seperate. For instance: Schools that require uniforms, the premise is to remove , class, ethnicity, etc.
This does not work, at all, even with younger children.
Commodities are instinctual due to generational habit. We are really no different than any other animal in that. One stunning revelation to me occured this year for me. My brain began putting things together.
A Bantum pair of chickens was purchased by my employers. This pair is the latest generation of Banties that are very humanized. They require and enjoy human contact. The other Banties(hens only) my employers have are not so. The Bantie rooster has bred with the other bantie hens. The results has been educational. A large part of the chicks require or are acceptable of human contact, others run.
Humanity has this within us too. Genetic memory is important yet not even touched upon as much as it should be. I cannot yet tell what is genetic memory in me, or basic or influenced. Can you?

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This is really nothing new. Utopian ideals about how technology will save us all from the drudgery of work. I’m a bit rusty on my Marx, but I think even he talked about this concept.

One question (among many): who would be responsible for maintaining these magnificent machines?

Think of every possible thing currently existing on Earth that you could possibly want. Then assume that you could have an unlimited number of such things. Now backtrack a few years, and consider all of the things that didn’t exist then. If everyone a few years ago had had everything they could have ever possibly wanted, there would have been absolutely no reason for people to try to make better or more useful things than the things existing at that moment.

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What the masses need to come to understand is that they will come to want whatever they have been programmed to want. Your wants are merely a reflection of your subtle programming and nothing else. The majority will vote for their own incarceration or elimination if need be. They will do as they are directed because they cannot discern that they are being directed. They follow what they want, not knowing that they want only what they are directed to want. They don’t really know why they want it. But they will be certain that they do and will come up with an excuse. And if you get in the way of what they want, you will be fighting the majority.

That is the present day game.
Just look at the way young people dress… “because they want to”.
Look at what they purchase… “because they want one”.
Look at what they eat… “because they want to”.
Look at what they do during their lives… “because they want to”.

None of them really know why they want any of it. But if you ask them, they will think up a reason to satisfy both you and themselves.

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The programming must be slow and subtle, blatant and quick will not work.

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Kriswest

Yes culture can become genetic. As far as I can tell, within me I can see aspects which are cultural, my englishness, and I feel ‘natural’ likes and dislikes about former enemies. I have worked with that knowledge though, and I would now think of myself as world-ish morso than english. Equally I dont feel the same pangs I used to on various subjects.

Isn’t that where also socialism takes us? So we appear to be doing the same thing; understanding what isnt us, and utilising that knowledge to create a greater freedom.

way I see it, is that we are going to end up in the same place irrespective of differing goals, culture and changes. Its an all roads lead to rome thing.

jagermeister330

well once we have built machines capable of building anything humans can, i’d expect that in the process or somewhere along the line, we would have machines which can maintain the other machines? In fact, I would expect that a machine which can perform any [and more] human action, would already have the capacity to mend machines.

Probably always wise to keep permanent information stored, - such that if e.g. all the robots in the world stop working, then we could rebuild them they way we originally had. Though my guess is that that would never happen.

Humans will just do all the jobs they like e.g. designing things then pressing buttons and those things are manufactured.

maybe even that one can be a poor poet or artist without the system picking on you all the time.

That’s what I hate about socialism – the ‘system’! Which is why i’d prefer a socialism of and for the people rather than a representative one!!! best way to achieve that is to build it ~ to invent our way past the need [automation] for govt + the state.

James

Really, is that all they are?.. is it not factual that the consciousness collates information with the physical, ergo attaining input and info from that source. Then that because no shape can >be< a concept idea or thought [as we '>experience< it], that the collated info is reflected by an equivalent [and non-physical] concept/idea/thought.

Shape and meaning are in a constant tussle or interaction – if you like, mental qualia do exist/are something. There are two parties at work, the consciousness and the brain. ….but you’ll never see some scientific demonstration showing us what consciousness >is< doing eh.

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