An eternity in heaven --- what's so great about that?

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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I’ve seen this floated around here, decided to make a full fledged thread out of it.

This is directed towards anyone that is looking forward to going to heaven, christian, muslim or jew (if you believe in that, it’s not an explicit jewish belief). — remember these questions do not reflect the POV of the writer (i.e. me!)

What is so great about spending eternity in heaven with god? Sure you are not burning in hell, but let’s think about what you do on Earth that you enjoy that would be considered passe or evil in heaven:

Listening to music of any kind
Driving a car down a windy road
chatting in ILP about wether or not god exists… I mean it’s gonna be obvious at that point right?
Having sex, making love, both of these will be impossible without genitals!
Laughing at a great joke… most great jokes involve someone elses hurt feelings.
Enjoying great cinema… movies are out of the question unless you want to watch fantasia.

And in closing:

why do you look forward to heaven, when you know absolutely nothing about it?

sitting around forever waiting for eternity to end sounds like a blast to me!

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I’ve always imagined Heaven as timeless. It’s atemporal so I would imagine there’d be no concept of time passing or of “sitting around…waiting.”

3

Ah yes, sipping an after dinner brandy at the restaurant at the end of the universe. Can’t get much better than that.

JT

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In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.

MB

ok so you sit around waiting to not wait while not waiting for eternity to pass.

5

Personaly i kinda like this place right here…

I’d like to stay just a while longer… I’m in absolutely no rush to get to heaven or hell…

In fact… This place right here… Is my heaven…

Now how are you gonna top this place?

c’mon! it can’t be topped… I love it here… this place is great!!!

Have you guys heard the musik here? tried the drugs? the women? this place rocks!!

screw heaven, man… I’m staying here!

6

Scyth, everything you mentioned seems to have the purpose of occupying ourselves with something from the outside. This suggests that we are “empty” inside. A higher state of being would mean being “full” inside. It is not something we can grasp being empty as we are, but can only be attracted to it as a “calling”.

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Hi Scythe… I believe you are partially joking; however, the following are some observations. :smiley:

What isn’t so great about spending eternity with god (he may know about every detail you could ever wonder about for an eternity).

What would you rather choose when presented with this argument below?I think anything is preferable than an eternity of burning in hell…

How is this below considered passe or evil… Psalms are songs/poems beloved by god and they are pleasing to him (this is accepted by Jews, Muslims, and most Christians)

Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

Who says we couldn’t still do this in god’s heaven? Have you read the book “What Dreams May Come” (or even the seen the movie). Heaven could be anything…
Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

We could still chat about which one of gods creations was the funniest? The ugliest? Etc. (as long as we can argue something I would be okay with it).

Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

You got me here… I am not sure of anything in heaven but who is to say that sex will exist? Why would we procreate in heaven? Besides, some sex :evilfun: is outright blasphemous… imagine you are with your woman/guy and s/he is screaming: Oh, god, oh god, oh god! God suddenly walks by and approaches the door saying: “You rang?” :astonished:

Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

Yes, but not all… if god existed I would wager that he has a great sense of humor… look at the platypus :laughing:

Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

What’s wrong with Fantasia? I’m sure there are many great movies rated G that would be okay to watch… :stuck_out_tongue:

Your posting below followed by my comment(s):

You have a point… but it is better than the alternative–for if heaven exists, so does hell right? :evilfun:

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so your “full” on the inside (whatever that means) our WHOLE purpose for doing anything here (be it atheist or buddhist or christian) is because in some way we are “empty” (food, religion, spirituality, materialism, helping others)

if we are “full” we have no reason to do anything.

partially yes.

but as Nick A said, being in heaven would mean you no longer desired to know such things, so even if said God did know such things, you wouldn’t want to know anyways!

well like I said I don’t even think “burning in hell” is an actual choice… I think “hell fire” is a hellenistic thought stolen by early christians.

Really though “hell fire” is a motivation in itself to believe in god isn’t it? without said negative reinforcement there is no point.

well that was another “humorous” part. evangelicals call 99% of the things I’m talking about “evil”. And wouldn’t poems and songs constantly praising god get a little old after a few millenia?

I’ve seen the movie it was a visual masterpiece. I think that it’s pure conjecture, just like what we’re doing here. It certainly is a more “new age” idea of heaven than the typical christian idea.

these two are related, and if anything the platypus shows a living transitional form. if proving evolution is funny, than I’m a monkey’s uncle.

nothing is wrong with fantasia I was trying to make a point that the more “dramatic” movies like the incredible Gladiator, or Jaws, wouldn’t be appropriate for heaven.

that’s the catch isn’t it? if you believe in hell in any form the fear of being consumed or spiritual death will inclinate you to believe in an all mighty god!

Negative reinforcement does work… but we are now learning of it’s all to dangerous side effects.

9

As I understand it, its not quite like that. First of all, man as he is naturally here on earth isn’t really doing anything but instead just reacting to external stimulation as does all of organic life on earth. Is a dog or a horse doing anything? They are just reacting as a machine does. We are the same way. We aren’t “doing” anything but instead what is being done is done through us as it is with all organic life. This is why we feel empty. We don’t exist in these reactions.

However, to be “full” means we exist as “Man” and not just a “machine” of organic life. As Man we are experiencing the spiritual life force of which we are a part. Our responses to it are real “doing” since they are conscious and “Actions” rather than solely “reactions”

Conscious actions are different from mechanical reactive responses and bring a whole new dimension to the phrases “reason to do anything.” It puts us in touch with universal law or as Buddhists say: dharma, which is deeper than normally supposed.

Consider what Meister Eckhart describes in the following as “free will.” It takes a bit to sink in but appreciated in the context of conscious action replacing blind unconscious animal reaction, it may IMO begin to reveal an important distinction for those open to it.

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This is what my friend (a much too devout christian) said (or the gist of it anyways)when I posed said question:
We don’t know, it’s about faith. It’s about being in the light/warmth/love/pure goodness with god rather than cold and dark. Meaning the soul, not the body, ascends to heaven to be with and love the lord.

If this is what she’s saying, then your memories and brainwaves cannot be preserved, or we would be motivated by human desires (boredom, greed, etc. She left me a note saying she was sad I won’t be going to heaven with her [the only requirement is to “accept the lord’s gift of forgivness of sins and love him”], thus proving she believs in memories after death). So why pray for the dead if basically they cease to exist, in pretty much any context?! As far as I’m concerned, she seems to be changing the very essence of her religion, the one she professes to live and breathe. In the percieved context of heaven, it is impossible to have such a paradise while continually existing… unless heaven is hell. [by the way, aren’t flames warm and light? :evilfun: ]

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God has no concept of freedom, it’s a vulgarity only useful to humans.

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Ill try to make this as brief as possible. I like to look at questions like these in a Platonic way. Plato said that the body limits the soul (soul being that which moves the body or gives life to the body). Our soul, therefore, is a prisoner of the body and cannot experience anything fully. It is only upon death, when our soul is freed from the body, that any person could fully understand/experience anything.
Now, the way I pertain this to the question is that many of these things that we enjoy on earth will be impossible to enjoy in heaven physically, true. But, the enjoyment we receive from the physical is an experience and feeling. Heaven, the ultimate paradise, will be each person’s full understanding of the universe, and only positive “feelings.”
To fully comprehend what heaven is going to be like or what to expect is impossible, not just because no one can experience it while living, but because heaven is infinite in all aspects. Our minds, as you all should know are incapable of fully understanding the infinite.

13

Amen!

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It is precisely because of our unwillingness to let go of our enjoyment that prevents us from experiencing Heaven which is not neccessarily a place in the sky but rather is inside our own being and in order to experience it we must give up the pleasures of the flesh. It’s not that there is anything ‘wrong’ with the pleasures of the flesh, it’s that they are not ‘real’ in the ultimate sense, they are maya - illusion. So we give up some pleasures in order to attain greater treasures.

This stuff can never be understood with the rational mind. It has to be understood in the heart. I was having a lively discussion with a friend last night who cannot believe anything that he can’t make sense out of in his mind. Frankly I’ve had enough of trying to convince anyone that we are not our mind. If we don’t know it we don’t know it. Simple as that! And unless we want to know, we will never know. If we believe that the mind is everything and we need to make sense out of everything then we should perhaps stop believing in anything that can’t be explained rationally. Like love for instance. Let’s all give up on love. Yes…let’s become our mind and then we shall see just how happy all of us are and just how much we want to remain here, stuck in this place filled with sensual pleasures and desires that are never sated. And even if we reach our goal, the one that we think will make us happy, we are happy for 10 seconds and there is another desire we want to fill. Only now it is desire that is our goal, not happiness. We don’t even know what that is.

And we are going to die. That much is certain - everything else is uncertain, yet we live this life as if things are certain and when life doesn’t meet our expectations we are unsatisfied and in the face of all this suffering we cling to this thing that we call our life, our hopes, our dreams, our desires! Unwilling to let them go and give ourselves an opportunity to be full. To say enough! This isn’t working, there must be another way. No. We don’t look for another way. We say, this is how it has always been, this is how it must be. And here we remain. In the illusions of our mind. Happy or sad, they are all a product of our mind and are impermanent.

15

Praxis writes

How could God have no concept of freedom if God initiated the laws of involution and evolution governing Creation that maintain the flow of its eternal life’s blood? Evolution leads towards freedom from the chaos of involution. Buddhists see this as freedom from samsara. Why is it vulgar if it is necessary?

16

I contest good sir! The use of the word “eternity” implies the existence of time, and a long time at that.

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God creates all, and creates us with an understanding of a notion such as freedom. How could we say that we have an ability to create an idea that God doesnt know.

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Hi A,

So, if I give up pleasures of the flesh -ie- I see the maya - illusion, is the sun still warm upon my face? Is the caress of a loved one to be ignored?

Which of the “some pleasures” are we to forego and what are the “greater treasures”?

JT

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To all the nay sayers: what use does God have of freedom?

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What the hell is freedom anyway???