Answering a question

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Belinda:
Then do you think that there are other sources than The Bible from which people can to learn how to be good?

K: An excellent question and questions, not answers are the
hallmark of a philosopher…

I am a parent… and as with all parents, I tried to in install
certain values into my daughter… and these are values that
virtually all parents attempt to install into their children…

How to play with others, the idea of sharing, toys for example,
not to hit or rough up other children…and we try to teach
honesty, fair play, and acceptance of others…and why do we do
such a thing? Because underneath every aspect of raising children,
lies the basic concept of the individual, the one and the
overarching aspect of being human, which is we live within
a state or society… our children’s training is done with
this fact in mind…that we do and must live within a state/society…
We cannot succeed on our own… to survive, we must
have a state/society working with us… I cannot educate myself,
I cannot fall in love by myself, I cannot heal myself, there is nothing
human or within our needs we can reach without the state/society…

And that is the good we are aiming for…as individuals,
we can only survive and prosper within a state/society…
and that is the morality, ethics we are raised with…that
we human beings have a set and certain needs, both
physical and psychological needs… and we cannot met
these needs without the aid and help of the state/society…

that to become human, to grow from animal, requires us
human beings to belong to, to be part of the state/society…
and all attempts to educate people, begin with this
basic proposition…

Every religion ever created, has as one of its basic points,
our relationship with the state/society… the
golden rule for example, is a rule about our dealing
with the state/society… how we get to heaven is
within our also acting proper within a state/society…

‘‘Render under Caesar the things that are Caesar’s
and unto God the things that are god’’

is a rule of dealing with the state/society…
and another rule of working within the state/society lies
within Hobbes ‘‘State of Nature’’…
and within Hobbes ‘‘State of Nature’’ which describes
humanity without Government or society, a chaotic
‘‘War of all against all’’ driven by self-interest, fear
and competition, into making life

‘‘Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short’’

in this realm, there is no justice or even injustice, there is
only the constant struggle of survival… That is the
value and worth of the state/society…we no longer
live within a ‘‘State of Nature’’ and by doing so, we
can work toward our own goals, not just trying to
survive…

and that is the point of doing the good… to keep the
state/society itself intact and working… and we profit
by this… the lie of ‘‘Rugged Individualism’’ and other
examples used by already wealthy and powerful,
to justify their own greed and self-interest… the fact is
that if everyone were to practice ‘‘Rugged Individualism’’
the society/state would collapse quickly… our only path
of being human lies within our state/society and keeping
them strong and powerful…

to be ‘‘good’’ is the engagement with keeping the
state and strong by our own actions… to hurt
or even kill someone, is to damage the state/society…
and we must avoid that… if we were to steal goods,
from an individual or a store or the state, we are
damaging the state, the store and/or the individual…
that is the true effort of ethics/morality… to keep
the state/society from falling apart and no longer
being able to help protect us, to help us survive…

In the end, morals and ethics are about keeping
the state/society intact and functional… it is
within those parameters, that we have laws and rules
and jails and prisons… because we can only survive
as individuals within the state/society…

This idea is completely independent of the bible…
to help maintain a state/society is part of the
agency of the bible, but it is not the whole aspect
of the bible… but to my eyes, they are two
different and distinct things… the bible, or any
set of religious ideas like those in Buddhism, is
about getting to heaven, yes, but it is also
a rulebook for keeping the state/society strong
and working for everyone… the rules installed by
religions, to be ethically and moral, are also rules
meant to keep the state/society functional…
which is a necessary aspect of religion…
it is just another means, a set of rules, keeping
us away from Hobbes ‘‘State of Nature’’…

Kropotkin

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@Belinda just in case you aren’t also Kropotkin… s/he answered your question.

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she gave one such possibility and I gave another…
and you can give a third, and others can give a
4th, 5th or 6th, and even hundreds of others possibilities…

Kropotkin

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We are all a Collective. Capitalism works against the collective tirelessly. I realized this yesterday, twice.

First was when I thought of starting my own business. Because Capitalists were trying to brainwash me to do so, saying it is contributing to society and I am lazy for not doing so. But is starting my own business really contributing to society? If my business actually succeeded, it would directly compete with someone else’s business. If my business succeeded it would subtract revenue from other people, it might even put my competitors out of business, or make them homeless.

So that’s boss phase 1 of capitalism defeated. Now for boss phase 2…

I noticed this when blue collar workers joyfully with glee posted how they love seeing people fail and wreck their homes just so that they will get paid to fix the mess and repair. Capitalism is cannabalism. Capitalists profit from weakness, decay and chaos. If there was no weakness, decay and chaos there would be no jobs. If someone made a miracle shirt that lasted for centuries there would be no more need for shirt workers.

Society does not function as one unit, a collective. Advances in technology, advances in efficiency means less work, less jobs. Society profits from inefficiency and dysfunction.

Its like, construction workers might even blow up bridges or start wars in order to create construction jobs.

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Christian morality can’t coexist with any known political system. Christian morality is not ‘fair’ as it urges Christians to love everybody equally without favour.

Sure, your way of teaching morality to children is plenty good enough but it is not Christian morality which is not ‘fair’ . Christians are asked to sacrifice themselves again and again far beyond the reach of fairness of distribution. Scientific studies show that even very young children are motivated to be fair n their dealing with others. Christianity goes beyond fairness, and there is no guarantee that a saint will avoid martyrdom .

Socialism is the best we can do as far as political systems go. Ethics of welfare socialism is as fair as it gets; but socialism is impersonal: unlike virtue ethics the aim of which is to make the individual as good as she can be. Jesus said Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God that which is God’s. This separates civic obligations from religious obligations.