Anti-WOKE idiots

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Time and time and time again, I have asked for
the alternative to being ‘‘WOKE’’ and yet not one
person has actually shown us something other than
being ''Anti-WOKE… or being ‘‘anti-Liberal’’
And I have asked many times, if you oppose ‘‘WOKE’’
and ‘‘Liberalism’’ give me your alternative? What are our
other choices? and of course, they will run away and pretend
not to see this thread… Being cowardly is the MO of
those being opposed to ‘‘WOKE’’ or are ‘‘anti-Liberal’’…

Give us your idea of government if we remove ‘‘WOKE’’
or if we were to give up ‘‘Liberalism’’… what are our choices?
especially idiots like MR. A and Ophelia… SO, what are your
alternatives?

Kropotkin

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the rhetoric in this thread is just a bit too aggressive. no? I think you guys have all been getting quite heated in your convos lately, is there a way I can entice you all to cool it down?

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Flannel Jesus:
the rhetoric in this thread is just a bit too aggressive. no? I think you guys have all been getting quite heated in your convos lately, is there a way I can entice you all to cool it down?

K: and no… and here is why… People are far too involved in their
own narrative… FJ, you have read me for a very, very long time,
my goal, as always is to A. get people to reevaluate
their own values and beliefs B. to provoke a reaction
and by doing so, perhaps someone here might engage,
as they should engage with their values and beliefs,
with skepticism… People around here are way too comfortable
with their own values and beliefs… I note that personally,
I have had three different and distinct political values,
and dozens of various philosophical beliefs and values…
what is needed is not more of the same, that leads nowhere…
but a change… and I in various posts and threads have engaged
people into, at the very least, examining their own values and beliefs
unto change…it has become clear to me that we are not changing,
or moving or becoming the values we should be engaged with…
the failure of today, both individually and collectively, is that
we are stagnant in our values and beliefs… the environment has
changed, but our values and beliefs are still tied into the last
environment, not the new environment… think of it this way,
it would be like fighting a modern day war with the weapons
and tactics of the American Civil War… we are fighting the last
war with the same weapons and tools, but in reality, we are
now in 2026… let us fight the war that is in front of us,
not the war that’s behind us… as we have been doing for the
last 50 years… and what war are we fighting Kropotkin?

we exists in 2026 and its environment, with weapons from
the ancient Jews, the bible, and it’s anti-human, anti-life
proposition… and weapons like religions, religions that
are also anti-life and anti-human… Every single religion
begins with its anti-life, anti-human beliefs… from Islam
to Buddhism to Jainism to the Jewish religion…
and conservatism, is also anti-life, anti-human…
anytime you put god or heaven or hell before human beings,
you are negating, dehumanizing human beings and life itself…
I am attempting to get people from just assuming as they do,
that Kropotkin is wrong because he is liberal or ‘‘WOKE’’ instead
how about trying the opposite approach, what if, radical thought I
know, but what if Kropotkin is right? Now what? What have you
done to promote human beings or life itself? for being ‘‘Liberal’’
and being ‘‘WOKE’’ is just that… Liberalism is a moral stance…
much more of a moral stance than any religion… and why?
Because being ‘‘Liberal’’ and being ‘‘WOKE’’ begins with
being human… it doesn’t begin with god or the state or
religions or heaven/or hell…What does it mean to be
human? That is the question… not what does it take to get
into an imaginary place or to be saved… I have tried honey
for years to get people around here to reevaluate their own
values and beliefs… it has failed… perhaps a better path is
to shock and awe others into an examination of values…

personally, I am not afraid of confrontations, I won’t go out
of my way to confront, but I won’t back down either…
perhaps a different tactic will get others to reevaluate…
but most likely not, most people would rather die than
have a reexamination of values/beliefs…

For example, there are several Christians around here…
and yet when confronted, they have no explanation for
the values and beliefs they hold… why these values
and not another? That would never occur to them…
and that is what I am challenging… you hold values,
X, Y and Z… WHY those values and not another?
I have examined my values and beliefs enough to have change
my own political position three times over my life… I challenge
others into thinking about the same… I have often heard it said ,
have you gotten right with god/Jesus? the real question is,
have you gotten right with yourself?

Kropotkin

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I love ‘liberal’, which is why I’m liberal. It’s not my problem that you are too thick to understand what ‘woke’ means, but being an American that’s hardly surprising. Irony and nuance are hardly your strong points.

You are truly blessed with the arrogance and conceit of the devoutly woke :innocent: :folded_hands:

And there it is again, in the words of the great intellectual giant George Dubya Bush: ‘Y’all are either with us or agin us’'.

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A self-proclaimed ‘writer’ should know better.

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MistressOphelia:
I love ‘liberal’, which is why I’m liberal. It’s not my problem that you are too thick to understand what ‘woke’ means, but being an American that’s hardly surprising. Irony and nuance are hardly your strong points.
You are truly blessed with the arrogance and conceit of the devoutly woke :innocent: :folded_hands:
And there it is again, in the words of the great intellectual giant George Dubya Bush: ‘Y’all are either with us or agin us’'.

K: and of course, you are not smart enough to engage with the
original question… which is, if not ‘‘WOKE’’ then what? What is
the alternative to ‘‘WOKE’’… deal with the original question…
if you can…

Kropotkin

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But you don’t even know what ‘woke’ is :rofl:

The alternative to ‘woke’ is being un braindead.

Why don’t you just ask me ‘what is the alternative to scientology?’ while you are about it?

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Peter Kropotkin: if not ‘‘WOKE’’ then what?

MO: But you don’t even know what ‘woke’ is :rofl:
The alternative to ‘woke’ is being un braindead.
Why don’t you just ask me ‘what is the alternative to scientology?’ while you are about it?

K: and another one who has reading comprehension issues, I have
explained ‘‘WOKE’’ at least a dozen times… do you need, yet
another explanation?

and what exactly does this mean: ‘‘is being un braindead’’…
this says nothing… just another attempt to hide, so we can’t
see your ignorance…

Kropotkin

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Poor man :cry:

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MistressOphelia: Poor man

K: and finally, we get to the point where MO admits to having
no knowledge of any kind…

Kropotkin

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Sounds more like she got tired of trying to reason with a walking pamphlet.

A foul mothed walking pamphlet.

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What are you, a twelve year old troll gamer?

‘‘Ooh, I win. I win because I said so!’’

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and despite the ongoing rhetoric, the fact remains that
no one has yet to address the initial op, which is simple
enough, if you are anti-WOKE or anti-Liberal, what is
the alternative? If we were to remove WOKE or Liberalism,
what would you recommend replacing it with?

This ties into one of my beliefs that people on ILP have
no real beliefs or values/thoughts that they are for, everyone around
here is against stuff, but being against stuff doesn’t require
thoughts or even facts… the average ILP person actually
has no philosophy or even rational thought… just feelings,
a gut feeling… and the worst part the average person here doesn’t
even hold actual thoughts or values… they simple recite their
own childhood indoctrinations as if they were facts…
an extremely lazy method, if one can call it that..
as opposed to an actual evaluation of one’s values and beliefs…
you know… real Philosophy… where you engage with your own
beliefs and values to see if they are in fact, your actual values
and beliefs… for the vast majority of people, in the real world
as well as ILP, they simple recite the values and beliefs they
were indoctrinated with as children…

for example, I was born in a certain time and place, the Midwest
in 1959… and I was indoctrinated into the values and beliefs
of that time and place… but what happened and unlike most
people around here, around late high school, I became aware
of these indoctrinations, and I explored them, examined them
to see if those indoctrinations are actually my values and beliefs
or, or are they simply the indoctrinations of America and the Midwest
at the time…Have you examined your own values and beliefs
to see if they are actually your values and beliefs or as I have
suggested, that your own values and beliefs are simply the
indoctrinations of your childhood…

Usually, usually, the more religious one is, the more likely
their religious beliefs are simply the childhood indoctrinations
of their childhood… and they never examined their own beliefs
to see if they are in fact, really, truly ‘‘love’’ god… for example,
take away the idea of reward and punishment that is the heart
of religions, the reward of heaven and the punishment of hell…
take that away and would you still ‘‘love’’ god? Nah… very
few would… they are not reacting to god, but to the
reward and punishment aspect of religion… as does
Islam and Judaism and Buddhism and Catholicism…
in fact, virtually all religions are based on reward and punishment…
even Buddhism…which BTW is an anti-life, anti-human religion…
for the goal is to never be born again… that is considered to
be suffering… living one’s life is considered to be suffering?
avoidance of the suffering of life, avoiding the pain and old age
and finally death, is all considered suffering… anti-life, anti-human…
I hope to find a religion that avoids the common mistakes of today’s
religions, in which pain, suffering and rewards are a major part
of that religion… if one needs a reward to join that religion,
it isn’t much of a religion…

So, what assumptions/indoctrinations do you have that has
not been examined? I would say, all of them…

Kropotkin

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If narrative is the problem than woke collapses under its own foundations.

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eodnhoj7:

If narrative is the problem than woke collapses under its own foundations.

K: two things, first please explain what you mean… how does ‘‘WOKE’’
collapse under its own foundation? second, ok, let us accept
your answer, what should replace it then? what are the alternatives?

Kropotkin

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I think there’s a false dichotomy here. The alternative to being “woke” doesn’t have to be being “anti-woke,” just as rejecting liberalism doesn’t automatically mean embracing some particular opposing ideology.

Someone could favor liberal democracy, individual rights, free speech, equality before the law, and social welfare while disagreeing with particular ideas commonly associated with contemporary “woke” politics. Likewise, someone could criticize aspects of liberalism without having to provide an entirely new system of government.

The question we should be asking, in my opinion, is not “What replaces woke?” but “Which specific principles are worth keeping, and which should we reject?” Otherwise, we’re treating two very broad labels as if they were complete political philosophies.

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I said “if narrative is the problem” then woke, as having a narrative, ie claimed enlightenment via self-proclamation, is subject to the same problems its accuses other systems of…ie foundational contradictions and paradoxes.

If it does not have a narrative then it has no foundations.

But you seem invested in woke…so, according to what you know, what is its precise narrative according to you?

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Whatever happened to “I?” What is this obsession with identifying with a mass, with tying one’s own opinion to a bunch of random people via some collective program?

What do “I” think about the things this crazy lunatic writes?

As long as it’s “we,” you won’t be trying to figure out what you actually think. You will be trying to figure out what you are supposed to think.

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Awake is something particular in the Bible. Stephen, before he was martyred, he saw The Son of Man at the right hand of God. He was Awake. Prophet Ezekiel had visions or saw the Spiritual like in Ezekiel 1. He was Awake. Awake is a particular thing. (Ezekiel 12:2)(Proverbs 20:12)(Matthew 13:15-17) Woke would be a corruption of coming from people more aligned with Rev Jesse Jackson and his Rainbow Coalition.

Woke was ideology as religion. It is defeated with The Kingdom of God.

The end of history is not an Atheistic Socialist State, with no borders, that denies the Book of Daniel. (Daniel 12) It it The Kingdom of God. You have been on The Wrong side of History.

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Woke and liberalism are not the same. Many people here have made their positions on a wide range of issues clear. You really thing conservatives who disgree with parts of most of Wokeness don’t have positions on politics and morals?

This reminds of when conservatives like Bill O’Reilly who said that liberals had no values.

Obviously there are different values that different people have. Even those you disagree with. Welcome to the Bill O’Reilly club for strange ideas.

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