Antinatalism, free will, and justice in debts

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

So, I’ve recently been thinking about my father. He loaned me 2,000 dollars to fix my teethe; arguably, teethe that he had broken by not training me well enough as a kid to brush my teethe. And, in addition, a byproduct of my drug addictions and severe depression, which I could ascribe as his ultimate fault in failing to parent correctly and not realizing the flaws in his genes.

I’m torn between humanism and behaviorism in this: do humans really have free will? Are my mistakes my own? Or, were my mistakes a result of a fault in my parents parenting; a behavioral que as the result of my genetics and the unfavorable environment my parents accosted me to? More of a psychology question, but I think it still has somewhat of a philosophical undertone.

Obviously, all parents mess up. Which is why I agree with this:

“A charmed life is so rare that for every one such life there are millions of wretched lives. Some know that their baby will be among the unfortunate. Nobody knows, however, that their baby will be one of the allegedly lucky few. Great suffering could await any person that is brought into existence. Even the most privileged people could give birth to a child that will suffer unbearably, be raped, assaulted, or be murdered brutally. The optimist surely bears the burden of justifying this procreational Russian roulette. Given that there are no real advantages over never existing for those who are brought into existence, it is hard to see how the significant risk of serious harm could be justified. If we count not only the unusually severe harms that anybody could endure, but also the quite routine ones of ordinary human life, then we find that matters are still worse for cheery procreators. It shows that they play Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun—aimed, of course, not at their own heads, but at those of their future offspring.”
― David Benatar

So, do humans have free will, or are we a byproduct of arbitrarily genitals slapping around, molding arbitrary genes into a person whom, in turn, does more genital slapping–not thinking of the child s/he will create him/herself, but of their greed for a child to make their life more meaningful; at what point is that child responsible for his own actions? And, are those actions actually his actions, or are they preprogrammed probabilities? I don’t think there is any “free will”; I think there is only a machine that runs based on its programmed course, more or less likely to one action than the other, in large part due to parental programming. Does consciousness overcome this? By thinking, are we extending ourselves outside the bounds of that programming, or are our thoughts simply an extension of that programming?

In addition, mildly incidental: when one applies for a job, takes that job–agreeing to a contract, a set of rules that they have agreed to be bound to–and decides to take a day off for him/herself, regardless of his/her promise to fulfill a job, Monday-Friday, is that just or no? If the employee feels that s/he is mistreated or under-compensated or whatnot, is it justifiable?

Or am I just a spoiled child whom doesn’t take responsibility?

2

Why is he responsible, if you’re not? How can you blame him for his choices and actions, if your own were merely someone else’s problems passed on to you? How can he have had a choice in creating you, where you had no choice in taking better care of your teeth or getting addicted to drugs?

If you’re going to drop free will, you have to change your language completely. And you have to change the thought processes that prompt you to ascribe fault and blame to others in a way that comes across as defensive.

Of course it’s not just; you’re breaking an agreement that you entered into voluntarily. Insofar as the employee (or employer) has a grievance, they should discuss it with the other party. If the employer feels the employee is not working as hard as they could, or insufficiently motivated, would they be justified in deciding unilaterally not to pay a day’s salary for work done?

It depends on how hypothetically your examples are offered.

Reponsibility is something that one assumes, or in another sense, that society deems. There’s a pride associated with living up to it, and a shame in shirking it. But pride and shame require self-respect as a basic underlying ground; without that, there’s no motive argument to take responsibility.

3

Pride and shame are what motivate you, O_H?

4

Self-respect is, where taking responsibility is concerned.

5

This is the new era. Fathers are at fault for all things, else children won’t listen to the new authorities over all things. All evil lies in your genes, from your father’s side. Don’t you know that yet? Or are you one of those evil fathers yourself?

6

Why is he responsible, if you’re not? How can you blame him for his choices and actions, if your own were merely someone else’s problems passed on to you? How can he have had a choice in creating you, where you had no choice in taking better care of your teeth or getting addicted to drugs?

Basic premise being that you think you have free will. But how do you know? When you come up with an idea–or weigh the pros and cons between two different choices with various consequences, where does that thought come from? Who are you? How are you defined, and what makes a choice yours? Given that the subconscious is tremendously large in contrast to the conscious–how do you know what choices you’re actually making? How do you know that everything you do is actually dictated by your subconscious, and your conscious simply plays out the role?

Would you agree, then, as you seem to, that if a child doesn’t have good behavior or doesn’t learn how to brush his teethe or clean his room, ect. ect., when does that become his fault and not his parents?

If you’re going to drop free will, you have to change your language completely. And you have to change the thought processes that prompt you to ascribe fault and blame to others in a way that comes across as defensive.

Nope. My thought process is fine–yours is flawed. Whom a child becomes is largely dependent on how he was raised by his parents. Society plays a large part, as well, however, most of the largest issues come from poor parenting (in one way or another, which all parents fuck up). So, my father fucking me up was his fuck up which was his parents fuck up and so on and so forth. Since I don’t have kids, I

Of course it’s not just; you’re breaking an agreement that you entered into voluntarily. Insofar as the employee (or employer) has a grievance, they should discuss it with the other party. If the employer feels the employee is not working as hard as they could, or insufficiently motivated, would they be justified in deciding unilaterally not to pay a day’s salary for work done?

Therefore: one has a moral responsibility to keep an agreement–even if the agreement is to be unjust or suffer injustice? How does that work out?

That depends on what effect a person not being paid would have on them. Would they still be able to eat? Is it just to withold pay from someone whom won’t be able to eat without that pay? Indoctrinated capitalist, clearly. Probably republican, too.

It depends on how hypothetically your examples are offered.

Reponsibility is something that one assumes, or in another sense, that society deems. There’s a pride associated with living up to it, and a shame in shirking it. But pride and shame require self-respect as a basic underlying ground; without that, there’s no motive argument to take responsibility.
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Convoluted. I doubt you’ve changed your perspective very much. Probably very similar to your parents perspective of the world (ironic).

Tu racontes n’importe quoi. Zakenehda. Tsubarashi baka. Hontoni masaka.

Niingan da kuso. Konoyaro. Kisama aho ya de.

7

In my experience, most parents that have bad habits discourage their children from repeating them. And most of these children grow up just find and lead a completely different life. It is possible that the parents themselves were ‘victims’ of their upbringing and having realized that, they didn’t want to perpetuate the cycle. Now that you’re aware, this is your chance to break that cycle.

8

True.

Yes, i second that.
It is useless to cry foul for everything. I may hold guilty his/her parents for his face, body and complexion too. It means nothing.

It is better to pull up the socks and try to change what can be changed for the better, instead of complaining for everything.

with love,
sanjay