I don’t recall any lawyers being amongst the many members of ILP, but then again talk of our professions seems to rarely come up. Also, I sadly haven’t visited for quite some time, so perhaps some of the newer members I am unfamiliar with have the appropriate qualifications.
Here’s my scenario should anyone know what they’re talking about and care to advise: My former employer owes me close to $25,000.00 for my last month’s work. It’s been 3 months since I should have been paid. I filed with the California State Labor Board, as I was a W2 employee. I am told my former brokerage will owe me a per diem amount of roughly $640.00 each day for up to 30 days for not paying me on time, so really they owe me just under $45,000.00.
I wouldn’t be concerned with not receiving what’s owed to me if the company were still up and running, however that is not the case- the company recently dissolved. Does anyone know what will happen to the owners of the corporation should I not get paid (or should they be unable to pay me, which seems to be the case)? Could their personal assets be pursued to satisfy the debts of their corporation, or is their personal property protected by the umbrella of the corporation?
Time will probably provide the only satsifactory answer, but I’d like to be at least a bit informed as to what the possible outcomes are.
as an unpaid employee, inasmuch as your debt is certified (which i take it is) you are counted as a regular creditor to the company, coming before stockholders. which means that when the company is dissolved, any money goes first to pay privileged creditors (not you), then regular creditors (you) then remainder is split between shareholders.
might want to check if you are not in fact a privileged creditor, it depends on state law and such.
the company can not dissolve with outstanding debt. it will have to file chapter 11 (bankruptcy).
HOWEVER, you must come forward and say all this. if you keep quiet, you will get nothing. so you have to file something (precisely what depends on the circumstances, it’s difficult to advise over the telephone)
depending on the status of the company, the owners may or may not be liable for your money. if it’s a limited responsibility, they are responsible to the limit of equity deposited. so again, it depends on the circumstances.
But wait a while. A Turkish proverb I have recently become aquainted with:
“Revenge is a dish best served cold.”
Then, join me in my efforts to speard chaos throughout capitalistic America.
There is one reason, and one reason only, why this has happened to you: private business; only possible in a Capitalism.
Fuck the lawyers. They are absolutely uneccessary. There are three people involved in your legal hearing; the plaintiff, the defendent, and the judge.
The “lawyer” is another accessory that has spawned from free enterprise. He serves no function other than a mediator between the three positions. Tell me something, is guilt determined by representation or by actuality? In other words, someone is guilty or not, this has nothing to do with a guy with a brown-suit, brief-case, and specialized vocabulary. All the lawyer does is speak to the judge in a vocabulary unfamiliar to the average person. But regardless of what he says, there will be a verdict. Not only is he not needed, but he should also be taken out back and shot for making a career out of the public’s ignorance in the technical matters of law.
While your at it, shoot the judge too, because he’s in it with the lawyer. They work in teams behind closed doors.
Jesus Christ, dude. You got some serious patience. If this guy owed me so much as a nickle, I beat his ass out of principle alone.
What do you call a hundred lawyers at the bottom of the sea?
Matthew, I feel sorry for you, but now that the company has dissolved I’m afraid you are going to have a very hard time getting your paycheck. I suggest you go talk to an actual lawyer ASAP.
Thank you for the information. It’s a bit what I suspected- that I would become a creditor of some sort. At least now I know I will most likely be second in line. Really it doesn’t make much difference, as there are very few liquitable assets the company has.
Then they must be lying by saying they have dissolved already, as I filed a few months ago with the labor board. Of course they could have dissolved before my paperwork was processed, but I doubt this to be the case. Is there a way to check public records to determine the status of the company?
Is having filed with the labor board considered coming forward, or do I need to obtain an attorney?
I know one of the partners personally invested close to a million dollars in the company, so perhaps there is an ounce of hope.
Again, thanks Zeno.
De’Trop-
You captured my initial feelings rather well, but I don’t think I’ll be committing acts of assault anytime soon. Granted $25,000 is quite a bit of money, but it’s a cheap lesson all things considered. I’m only 25 years old- I won’t be so naive when it comes to trusting the integrity or stability of a business before I work for it.
Also, I opened what’s called a net branch (it’s like a franchised brokerage) because of this fiasco- something I would have never done otherwise. Because I now pay only a miniscule portion of my commisions to a brokerage, in the long run I will come out ahead. I have also had many people ask if they could work for me (which was a pleasant surprise), so I’m now playing around with expanding the operation.
If anything, I’m grateful to be having such a positive outlook on this situation. It would be miserable if I were loathing being ripped off on a daily basis.
If anything, I suppose it gives my de Balzac quotation that much more merit.
Matthew, for Cali, you may check the link below and the company’s status will be displayed. However, the information is about 30 days behind schedule. It is unlikely they have dissolved: typically you will receive a notice regarding the dissolvement of the company.
The labor board is a start. Get an attorney. An attorney may place you higher on the creditors list so that you get something rather than the short end of the stick. Check with a good Wage & Hour attorney and he will be able to give you free advice on whether its worth your effort. He will also help (for a small fee of about $1500 - $2500) with your labor board case. If you would like a lawyer, PM me and I can recommend one in the So Cal area.
Then again, Matthew E. would NEVER be due $25K because it is probably next to impossible in a Communist nation.
-Thirst
[size=75]P.S. Lawyers love jokes about lawyers.[/size]
Yes, people in that situation will very often lie as a first line defense mechanism (ie, sorry, we disolved already… they didn’t but it manages to keep the silly away)
A company can not dissolve without one fiscal year of no-activity, called conservation or (depending where you are, something like that.)
Seeing how it’s not been a fiscal year start since when you got fired (i gather), there’s no way it is reasonably dissolved.
On the other hand, filing with the department of labour might or might not be enough. you will have to check that (it’s probably available on the dept of labour website or support lines)
Yes, there many ways to check public records, anything in between thirst’s link and filing a request with the courthouse, the local chamber of commerce and so forth.
It might be or it might be not.
On the issue of the attorney, its like this :
There is some work to be done, which is positively determined and outlined in publicly available documents (meaning it’s not arcane or secret or in any way unreachable by any other reason than your own fault). Doing work takes time. That is a downside. Hireing someone to do the work for you takes money, and is a risk. That is also a downside. Which downside you prefer is entirely up to you, so make a call.
On the bright side, doing it for yourself will make you a much more informed, self confident citizen, wether you win or lose.
On the bright side, hireing a lawyer doesn’t take any of your time and doesn’t give you a headache and arguably (although i do not belive so) will give you better chances to win. I know for a fact it wouldn’t give me better chances, but each his own.
I suppose it can be seen as a metaphorical choice of wether you want to be with the lazy and opressed or with the entrepreneurial and tired.
it’s not as much a matter of how much was invested, it’s a matter of how the company is incorporated. you will have to read up on that a bit.
more than welcome.
Thank you for the link and information, you’ve been extremely helpful. I think I’m going to try to tackle this on my own, but if I begin to feel as if I am getting in over my head, I will absolutely be sending you a PM.
I’m not too sure money would be necessary in a “true” communist nation. By “true” I mean the Marxist ideal, which has yet to be realized.
Zeno-
Thanks for answering the remainder of my questions. I think I’ll do a bit of my own research as you recommended and see how I fend for myself.
Thanks again all.
If I win I’ll buy everyone in this thread a beer for their support.
I should probably rephrase that last sentence actually- everyone that has posted before this. Otherwise every alcoholic member of ILP (which is everyone I believe) will post in this thread. The last thing I want is Zeno and Thirst filing a class action law suit against me for breaking a contractual obligation.
