Anyone want to analyze this situation?

You can perceive things without actually looking for it. Change is based on perspective… how we observe and how we quantify things. This is why, we as people, create standards and practices. Things such as language, laws, etc… we’re conditioned, acculturated and indoctrinated from birth to share this unifying perspective. If you fail to be assimilated, you’re punished for being divergent.

I mean that in-general, people are conditioned/accultured/indoctrinated to be concerned with the mundane. As a result, my existence is a lonely one… not because I lack social interaction, but because the majority of my interactions are nothing more than “small talk” and the like… very few people are comfortable discussing more meaningful concepts/ideas, even fewer openmindedly.

Good/Evil, Right/Wrong, Positive/Negative… are all biased and subjective. We all have preferences, which you can categorize in such ways, but there’s no universal morality. I have my own personal ideologies (i.e. preferences), which I attempt to live in accordance with. For instance, if I feel my life threatened, I will have no issue taking a life if I have to (just as we see in Nature). I will live and let live, until it directly affects my ability to live. I will never choose to impose my ideologies on others, like we’re prone to do in Society, as a manner to validate my beliefs.

Not evaluate, but accept. Evaluation leads to rationalization and justification, acceptance leads to freedom. For instance, if you truly accept Fantine, you do not view her as a prostitute… you view her as Fantine… regardless of all the biases we have about her actions.

Compromise only means both sides suffer, instead of one. It is an unnatural concept, animals don’t compromise. There is a conflict between my ex and I, if there’s a compromise, we both suffer for it. The stronger specimen will take it’s place in the heirarchy of the species… whom that might be is yet to be determined. If a weaker bear challenges a stronger bear for a superior fishing spot, there are consequences for such an action, the bears do not compromise. I will not shoulder the injuries I’ve endured any longer, because of compromise, this means being true to my Nature… if she cannot handle the consequences of her actions, she shouldn’t have done said actions. And no, I don’t plan to respond with violence, I intend to simply share my story as I perceived it. This will likely inflict pain and suffering on her (others might be influenced by my words to judge her for who she actually is, as opposed to the persona she presents to the world), but I cannot be held accountable for her actions. I can only be held responsible for my own actions, which I’m willing to do, since I’ve been taking responsibility for others my entire life.

It’s my responsibility that my sister and cousin molested me when I was 6, it’s my responsibility that my mother and oldest brother used to beat me for most of my childhood, it’s my responsibility that some teacher put a megaphone next to my ear when I was 6 and traumatized me in front of the entire class, it’s my responsibility that I left myself emotionally vulnerable to my ex and she took it as an invitation to cut me to pieces for nine years (which lasted as long as it did, because the cycle of abuse was normalized to me as a result of my childhood)… I accept what happened and I understand that those who abused me, were abused themselves… but fuck them, because they refuse to take any responsibility at all. I’m the “bad” guy because I refuse to merely internalize it and let it eat away at me like they choose to do. I should instead seek to distract myself from all of it, as I did my entire life, even though that only made me depressed and apathetic. I’m not allowed to live, the way I want to live, because it’s considered “wrong” to want to confront my demons. I even take responsibility for my own actions, which is why I reached out to the people that I hurt and apologized for my actions, offering whatever was in my power to make it “right” by them… even to those that hurt me.

You misunderstand me. The fact that you’re asking questions and willing to have a back/forth, shows open-mindedness (i.e. a willingness to adapt). This is an uncommon characteristic, at least from my anecdotal experiences. We’re not perfect and sometimes emotions get the better of us, for instance, this thread started as a result of emotions getting the better of me. Disagreeing with a poorly thought-out argument, isn’t taking a hard stance… denying or being stubborn in the face of evidence/reason/logic is a hard stance.

It’s all beliefs IMHO. We all have them, but some of us are fluid in the process and most are stiff. I’m fluid because I realize that I do not know as much as I would like to think I know, therefore, new information is contemplated and my beliefs are adjusted accordingly. Many, for various reasons, don’t reflect on beliefs after they’re formed.

Don’t let ego get in your way here. Psychology isn’t as complex as some make it out to be or maybe I’m gifted in this area… I can tell a lot about people based on very little, not usually particulars, but generalities for sure. I’m not trying to encapsulate the entirity of your being, based on a superficial amount of information, but I have already figured out a lot about your thought-process from these short exchanges. I may not know the causes behind the effects, but I know psychology well enough to glean out certain patterns and based on those patterns I can “ballpark” things well enough.

See above.

.

Agreed, it’s not easy. It took me almost 40 years to finally figure it out and it’s going to take years to recondition myself to be the way I desire to be.

Anger was before apathy. I got to a point where it was either let my anger manifest in potentially terrible ways or to simply stop caring. Actually, the reason I’m good at what I do, is because I suppress my emotions. I have empirical experiences in such matters, so I can understand and empathize, but if I let my emotions interfere… I would be highly unstable, just like the students… it’s my stability and my understanding that makes them feel comfortable around me and respect me enough to do what I ask.

I’m speaking of everyone who was involved in my life.

I’m protected under the 1st ammendment. They have to prove that my writing is false, I don’t have to prove that it’s true, if they seek to pursue libel… but a disclaimer will legally protect me, in any event. Your interactions with others, outside of specific circumstances, has no expectations of privacy… to illustrate, if I rape someone, does the victim not have the legal right to reveal my action? (i.e. the right to reveal what we want about ourselves vs what we reveal about others)… can the victim only reveal that they were raped, but not who did it? Actions have consequences… I may not have legal or civil recourses, but I do have the freedom to honestly tell my story.

I don’t have total disregard for those who abused me, but where does my personal regard stand vs my regard for them? At some point, a decision must be made… do I hold more regard for myself or do I hold more regard for them? They chose to regard themselves more than they regarded me, when they abused me and still they chose to not take responsibility for it. I at least am willing to accept my responsibility, even if it means being estranged from my family.

It’s a possibility as I was vulnerable at the time, but based on all the information, I would disagree. I witnessed the exact moment that her defenses came up, so logically speaking, lowered defenses means vulnerability.

I met her 3 years before Bosnia, but I didn’t really get to know her until a month before I left (I spent about 10 days with her on leave, then 2 weeks back in Texas before going to Bosnia). I specifically told her that if she wasn’t into me or found someone else, just to let me know… cheating on deployed soldiers is very common and I knew this, which is why I made it very clear to her that I would have no hard feelings if she couldn’t handle the situation, just to give me the courtesy of a heads up.

The person she was without the defenses up (i.e. before the women made the comment).

Yes, I said as much in that same quote. It obviously isn’t her, which I’ve come to realize and accept now.

,

The current reality, with reference to her, is that she is heavily damaged and not the kind of person that I want to associate with. I feel sad for her, she is a miserable person from what I could analyze in our recent conversations. She works all the time, escapes in World of Warcraft, hasn’t had a meaningful relationship since, only surrounds herself with people who do not challenge her, she seeks to escape her past by disaccosiating from it and displayed emotional outbursts when confronted by something that supposedly doesn’t affect her or have power over her any more (which is complete hypocrisy), etc… I was fighting it for a bit, but I have come to accept it. The process is on-going and part of the process for me is to write my story.

Love is a feeling, it’s a part of our biology, used to form strong bonds. I do see a difference between love and being “in love” though, being “in love” is a much stronger chemical mix, to aid the reproduction process. Love on the other hand, is something that we feel towards others in our species… like animals that are social, why don’t they kill one another for food or safety? I mean, some do, but it’s purpose is based in biology… like when animals kill the young of other males to put the female into heat, so that he can spread his own seed. Unfortunately, our Nurture has manipulated our Nature in this regard. We have created a lot of conflict in ourselves over it… leading to a lot of dysfunction and mental illness.

This is your Nurture speaking. We all know how to love (besides the few cases of mutation), it’s in our DNA. It’s our conditioning that influences us to rationalize/justify our feelings towards others. If you see a person suffering, do you not feel empathy and compassion? What about if you find out later that they were a pedophile? One is Nature, the other is Nurture.

No, I understand that we’re all imperfect. We’re not defined by a single action, we’re defined by all of them combined. I may not respect that he murdered someone, but I would still respect other things that he did… respecting aspects of someone is still respecting the person, it doesn’t have to be absolute… although a lack of respect must be a complete absence of respect.

Why do you have a problem with the term “damaged”? Imagine a new TV, over the years of use it becomes worn, but eventually from misuse it develops a defect (i.e. becomes damaged, not inoperable)… apply the same logic to a person… you’re born new, over the years of responsible use you become worn, someone/something mistreats you and you develop a defect as a result (i.e. become damaged). That defect might be something like being emotionally hurt and it forces you to develop defenses, which as a result prevents you from treating the next person the same way.

It was a change in my Army experience, not myself. I went from basic training into a regular unit, two different environments, which made those issues more glaring and they began to affect me directly.

Thought is Natural. There’s nothing wrong with it, unless it’s dysfunctional. It’s about maintaining balance, in all aspects of life. Being physically fulfilled, being mentally fulfilled, being spiritually fulfilled… if one of those is out of balance with the rest, it’s dysfunctional. You must make time for each aspect… thinking all the time, is just as dysfunctional as working all the time… meditating all the time, is just as dysfunctional as thinking all the time.

To a degree… nurtured enough to be unhappy, not nurtured enough to fit into my environment blissfully ignorant. I’m able to see both the beginning and the finish, I’d rather go back to the beginning than attempt to reach the end… I’m too aware of what we are to be content with what we become. I talk about retraining, because we’re speaking about states of being… if you take a domesticated dog and toss it back in the wild, it will have to adapt to the new environment (i.e. retrain itself to the new lifestyle). No different than a muscle, if you train your muscles to sit behind a desk all day and type, it will require retraining to go out and bench press 500 lbs.

We’re similar to animals, but we possess consciousness. My point was that an animal can retrain itself while lacking consciousness, meaning that with consciousness (i.e. a human), I should be able to accomplish such a feat easier.

Is there? You keep asking me about right/wrong, I don’t think in such terms any longer. Can practicality be harmful? Absolutely. Can practicality be beneficial? Absolutely. Wisdom is the ability to judge such things… if you’re using practicality to justify/rationalize things, it’s probably more harmful than beneficial.

Why would I change my username? It is a part of me, just as is the harmful and beneficial experiences I’ve had. I don’t need to run away from those things, because I don’t need to run away from myself. I’m content in myself, I’m content in my past.

Warlock,

.

Yes of course. We can also perceive things without understanding.
Some things we perceive subliminally. This is why investigating our dreams can be important.

Then it goes on to putting that into action. Well, seeing is sometimes enough to change as long as there is clarity.

Perhaps but don’t you think that that would depend on the individual person him/her-self? Like they say, not everyone can be hypnotized to do something.

I understand what you’re saying and I think that most here would agree with you. Most people are satisfied with the hype which goes on on facebook for instance. I think that one of the things which can distill or eradicate loneliness is real intimate (non-sexual) conversations. Loneliness comes about I think when a person is not able to be open and to give their self at their core, down deep where they "live’ in a manner of speaking. Of course, we have to be careful about how and to whom we give ourselves.

Well, I can agree with you up to a point but don’t you think that there are instances where there is white and there is black only?
Do you recognize the morality and ethics of doing no deliberate harm insomuch as you can? I’m just wondering and when I wonder, I don’t know - I’m not sure. There’s not a whole lot that I am sure about. But as I said, i can agree with this up to a point.

Why is there no universal morality, I wonder?
Is it because there are people who’s minds are totally unethical and amoral? Because there are some minds which are totally warped?
I suppose that it is also because we all perceive things differently, do not have the ability to “think things out” and to follow them to a natural logical and reasonable conclusion, we all have those blind spots, we are biased where we ourselves are concerned, basically we’re weak and fallible.
I suppose that I do at times try to “influence” others with my perspectives. The reality is that this is why we are in a philosophy forum, is it not? To discuss, to bring about a meeting of the minds. I hope that I don’t manipulate. How to know the difference…

If you are speaking here of unconditional acceptance of something, of everything, then I don’t agree with you. I personally feel that things need first to be evaluated, to be judged (not the act, but the situation itself). I have to first understand something, to see it in as much totality as i can before i can accept it or not. Perhaps that is wrong but…
I don’t think that ALL evaluation leads to rationalization and justification. It would depend on the individual and his/her mind, don’t you think? From my point of view, lack of evaluation can lead to those things.

How are you using the word “view” here? I am still capable of seeing a prostitute on 42nd street as a prostitute but at the same time will not judge her since i don’t know where she’s been and how she’s gotten here but the reality is that that is what we call women or men who sell their bodies and souls for money.
But then again, in truth, we all prostitute ourselves in one way or the other, for something.

I don’t agree with that, Warlock. That I think would only be the case if the one felt in terms of actually “giving in” when not wanting to - instead of there being a harmony or a meeting of the minds in some way. There can be a true compromise but both sides have to be willing to sacrifice something in order to gain something.

Are we bears, Warlock? Can bears reason and see the beauty and intelligence of giving up something in order to have something more? Can they measure cost and benefit? Perhaps, Warlock, you do not like to share your fishing spot.

Well, only you can determine what you might actually “gain” through compromise. I’m not even sure in this case what that would entail. Insofar as what I inserted in color, take a minute to re-read what you wrote. Unfortunately, most of us don’t have that kind of insight to be able to see all of the possibilities and results of our actions beforehand. But I am certainly finding out how important it is to see the ways in which what we say and what we do beforehand can affect/effect others and ourselves.
We don’t normally live our lives putting the cart before the horse, do we?

Are our perceptions always correct ones, Warlock? You know, there was probably a great psychological reason why Christ when dying on the cross (I’m agnostic lol) said: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?” This doesn’t necessarily mean that we forgive but we can try to understand. We can’t usually know a person at his/her core and what caused them to become who they are? We are such a mishmash of our personal histories and victims(?) of our own psyches.
Anyway, what happened to what you said a ways back about not evaluating but simply accepting people as they are? I’m just asking.

Unless you were being ironic here, no, that was not your responsibility. You were a child. How are you now helping and loving that inner child?

.

Yes, it’s like a vicious cycle…repeated patterns. But when we begin to see why we have been the way we are, it actually does become our responsibility to change - I mean, we can’t continue to blame others if we are honest with ourselves and want to change.

We have to confront our demons. It’s a process though. Some of them we aren’t even aware of having.
It’s not an easy thing either I don’t think to truly apologize for having hurt others or maybe I’m just not that humble but in the long run it can help the person their self than even the one that person is apologizing too, if that made sense.

Hmmm, I’m not so sure that it is that uncommon. Perhaps it just depends on the individuals you meet. That might just be what you said - what it comes down to.
What i am actually trying to do in here along with you is brainstorm. I think it’s helpful when we can have as many different perspectives as possible - it leads to more clarity and understanding if we can remain open. I have found that often my perceptions have not been quite on the mark, to say the least. So as long as you want to discuss, I’m willing to.

Perhaps it’s because we feel we’ve found one that we can be comfortable with.
I think it’s very interesting and informative to notice how often our beliefs do change. If we can “see” this, we can remain fluid as you say - like a river.

You call that ego? Well, I suppose it could be from opposite ends of the pole.

If you take the individual’s human psyche out of the equation, then you might say that…but…
Why do you say that are gifted maybe in that area?

I think that many in here have figured out a lot about my thought processes lol. I can’t be sure if that is humility or ego.Ego can be "negative’ too.
When it comes to psychology, it IS important to know the causes behind the effects at least that’s the way I feel and intuit it. Otherwise why even bother! If you don’t know how you’ve gotten someplace, how can you take the journey home?

Why not just think in terms of “seeing” something in the moment and letting it fly away.
By the way, we never stop figuring it out I think. I love the word 'process". That’s what we are - all the world and each and every universe is a process.

That’s a coping mechanism of course. But how beneficial is it in the long run to keep on suppressing one’s emotions? Do you have other outlets for your anger, like exercsing, running, crying lol? What happens with the volcano that suppresses?
Anger is an avoidance of the pain. That’s something that we all need to look at.

Okay.

Yes, they do to all parties concerned which includes yourself too.

There is no black nor white here. I think that where it is a question of getting help for one’s self, a person has to do everything possible to help their self, to heal their self.
I also think that those others need to be confronted about what was done to one’s self. Ideally, it would be a good thing if those others could take an honest look at what someone is saying about what they felt was done to them and how it affected them. I know that always isn’t an easy thing. But even without that, the person has to continue on with their healing process.
This is a bit different though in a way. You want to publish this in black and white. This has some blurriness for me. People always feel that they have perfect freedom when it comes to speech and other things. The only thing which bothers me is the revelation of names. There is just something about that but again i realize that it would be difficult for you to write your story without the names unless you wrote it under an assumed name. I don’t see you doing that. But you have to do what you feel it takes to heal though hmmm…remember others need to heal too. But maybe I’m wrong in the way I look at it. It is only my perspective and I’m not even sure I’m presenting a clear one here.

So, in a matter of speaking, you were just acquaintances at first?
A month really isn’t that long a time to know someone, to want to make a commitment as a girlfriend/boyfriend, I don’t think. What do you think?

Perhaps at the time she hadn’t really had the time to analyze her feelings.
If you had told one another that you loved one another and if she had said that she would wait for you and be faithful, then that might make things a bit different. But still -
So how did she respond to that? You see, I don’t think that either of you had much time together to "seal the deal’ in a way. It’s not like you were together for months before you left for Bosnia or had planned a life together - or did you? I’m just trying to help you see from another point of you - mine.
If this had been some other woman, she might have said that she wasn’t sure about how she felt - after all, it was only a few weeks. She might have wanted to write to you though, to keep in touch, for both your sakes. But your ex might just be another type - not a wrong type, just different type than some other women. Again, it can sometimes be so easy to fall in love but sometimes it is not "absence makes the heart grow fonder, bit is out of sight out of mind. You really didn’t know each other so well I don’t think and that is the reality of it. or did you? I’m not speaking of sex here. I’m talking about “real” human intimacy and sharing.

Well, then, I might say that in order to continue your own healing process, you would have to disassociate yourself from her - at least until you can become detached from how thinking about her affects you. If you are both so different, what’s the logic?
But if you can find it in heart to have some understanding and compassion for her, it would be easier for you to have that for yourself also. Try to consider where she has been - or not - it’s not an easy thing to do but it does stretch us in ways which could help our own healing process.

Do you mean the way in which i choose to nurture or protect myself?

.

I don’t agree with this. We all have to learn how to love. As you spoke about the bear and compromise…the bear who didn’t want to share his fishing place. Compromise is also about love because it sees that we ourselves are not the only ones in the equation. If we refuse to compromise for reasonable reasons, then where is the love? I’m just asking I may be wrong but I intuit that i may be right. lol

I’m not sure I am understanding you about the nature/nurture thing. Don’t get me wrong. I do understand the difference but not how you’re applying it to this.
Yes, I am capable of feeling compassion and empathy.

Insofar as the pedophile is concerned, at first glance I realize that I do have feelings of bias about this as I think is normal. I’m a Mom and I find myself in an emotional/protective place where any child is concerned. But after really thinking about it somewhat, trying to without any emotion, I thought of the saying from the bible I believe: “And a child shall lead them”. There could be many meanings for this line but in order for me to come to any sympathy/compassion/understanding for him/her, I would have to think of that person as the child who he/she was at one time. I would have to somewhat know that person’s history and inner and outer experience as a little boy or girl. I realize that it is often, if not always, the case of the pedophile having been sexually assaulted and abused by another pedophile as a young child. And on and on and on it goes.
I can only say possibly because I cannot know until I know but possibly if I could know that that person does feel guilt and remorse for what they have done to the victim and is struggling and doing whatever can be done in order to prevent that from happening again, then I might be able to feel the sympathy and compassion and understand the terrible journey in that regard. If that person though has no remorse/guilt/regret whatsoever and is totally just a predator who only wants to continue being a predator, then there can be no understanding, et cetera. Of course, any positive feelings do not, for me, disregard the fact that that person needs to answer for his actions/crimes/be penalized by spending time in jail and wouldn’t that person who was “trying” necessarily feel the same?

Probably just some kind of a quirk within me - my problem with the word damaged.
But there was a time that I thought of myself as so much excess baggage as a result of not having been wanted… as in excess baggage…something not really needed until others came along to show me myself in another way. But anyway, we are not TVs. We are not really objects. I think I don’t like the word "damaged’ because it objectifies us as human beings. As I said, it might just be a quirk with me. I have a few of them.
But I do get your analogy to a defect.
I don’t think that anyone is really born “new”. We all come along with family genes, DNA and even that conditions us before we’ve had a chance to begin growing. …for instance alcoholism and how it affects the child, physically and mentally. We are no tabula rasa, I don’t think.

.
So the change was a part of you. What you experience is a part of you and who you are.

What made you enlist in the first place? You had to know that those were two entirely different environments? So what really changed?

Yes, I agree with this. But you did say that you think all of the time. You can’t help it.
What do YOU do to counteract all of that thinking all of the time?

Did you mean to say nurtured enough NOT to be “completely” unhappy?
I think that the right kind of nurturing causes us to be happy in a realistic way - not in a blissfully ignorant way, like seeing like if rose-colored glasses.

.
What “finish” are you talking about. There’s no finish until you’ve breathed your last breath.
Can you elaborate on the second part of that? I don’t understand.

You mean that we are capable of possessing consciousness.

We would think, right? But tell me, what might that entail for you.

All I was saying is that being practical doesn’t have to be about rationalizing/justifying. Sometimes it’s the only choice we can make. Maybe a better word would have been stoic.
Let’s forget about right or wrong? Do we need at least our own code of ethics and morality in this world of ours?