I was just wondering what the prevalence of AD(H)D would be on a forum like this. I have ADD and I think I can attribute my interest in philosophy in part to that. Many ADD types tend to hyperfocus on specific areas. Einstein, who is now believed to have had ADD, admits to day dreaming about the cosmos and other attention grabbing subjects while he was in school rather than focusing on the teacher. I’m not saying I’m as brilliant as Einstein, but I do understand the urge to focus on more “entertaining” thoughts or to get lost in my imagination while the current environment is not stimulating enough. I can control it now (to an extent), but back then, it was the reason for so many intervention attempts (including ritalin). I also think it might be the reason for my interest in subjects like philosophy, science, and sometimes even history. For some reason, they’re just so much more stimulating (intellectually) than other drab and mundane subjects, and I can easily hyperfocus on them because of the stimulation they afford.
So I’m wondering if others here are like that and if you think it’s your reason for being interested in philosophy. Have you been clinically diagnosed with AD(H)D? I would like to see what the ratio of AD(H)D to non-AD(H)D people is on a philosophy forum like this and compare that to the (supposed) 10% incidence in the population at large.
I have a very short attention span and am a huge day-dreamer (which got me into plenty trouble at school ) but having meditated to give me focus since I was 3 it’s hard to say if I have it or not… which then begs the question: is it the result of an unruly mind?
This is typical of most adults who have (or had) AD(H)D in childhood but have, in one way or another, overcome it. I sometimes wonder if I can rightfully say that I still have it given that now-a-days people generally claim not to notice any of the typical symptoms (but maybe they’re just being nice). Other’s, who are either experts on AD(H)D or have it themselves, have told me that a sure sign that one still has the condition is that the strengths remain even after all the problems have been overcome. These strengths might include the ability to think outside the box, to empathize with others, to think more partially along logical/rational lines as opposed to comforming to social patterns of thinking, creativity, hyper-energetic vis-a-vis tasks/projects that interest you, high entrepreneurial spirit, etc., etc., etc. If you see patterns like this persisting in your life, you may still have the condition (although it would be nothing to be ashame of in this case).
I was on Ritalin for a short time in elementary school for ADD. My parents took me off of the drug after two weeks though because it had a major negative impact on my emotional well-being. My “study habits” in school have always been poor and I think it must be a combination of poor motivation and poor attention. Having poor control over my attention certainly has a negative affect on my motivation and vice-versa! I definitely tend to hyper-focus on specific areas, too. Interesting. I hadn’t thought about it that way before.
I remember ritalin made me feel nervous like a high dose of caffeine. I stayed on it for about two years after which time I wanted to be taken off. My study habits improved while on the drug, but they remained improved even after being taken off. I must had acquired some learning skills while on the drug, and therefore knew how to study or focus properly afterwards.
Do you find you have similar problems in job situations?
My own job experience is quite negative. I have a history of seeming “dumb” presumably because of typical ADD symptoms (lack of attention, bad memory, misinterpretation, etc.). Only recently have I been learning the skills required to perform well on the job.
But that is different than, say, chromosomes where everybody has chromosomes but the outliers represent a rather drastic departure from the mean as opposed to a more fluid scale.
I got the opposite (is it the opposite?) predisposition (narcolepsy) for which I’m nonetheless prescribed the same charm (dexedrine, with an extended stint on ritalin, which always made me feel like I’m connected to a shorted-out appliance). I was clocked at 1.5 minutes into REM (60 min for the neurotypical). Now THATS speeding!! (budda-bum)
So you mean like a gene mutation in the chromosome (where there isn’t a continuum between the normal gene and the mutation)? I think that’s a fair analogy for the kind of thing you’re skeptical about, which I’m skeptical about too. But when it comes to mental disorders, it’s rarely ever the case that this analogy describes how doctors think of it. Most disorders are understood to be extreme ends of a smooth continuum.
I was thinking more line Down’s Syndrome where there is an extra chromosome or Turner’s Syndrome where there is a missing chromosome. Those are pretty clear-cut. Difference on a scale, ehhh, I’m skeptical of “diseases” like that, especially when there are interests that stand to profit.
Well, if it’s the labeling (i.e. “disease”, “disorder”, etc.) that you’r skeptical about, I understand - though I wouldn’t go so far as to say AD(H)D doesn’t exist, just that its standing as a “disease” or “disorder” is somewhat arbitrary. That’s why I prefer “disposition”, which, lexographically, means “removed from the normal position (on the spectrum)” (this is not a formal translation, of course ). And I don’t think this dispositioning is a matter of choice or rearing. I could tell you stories of how desparately I’ve tried to overcome the challenges of AD(H)D in job situations or how oblivious I was to them in grade school (before I was put on ritalin). It ain’t laziness like so many are fond of assuming. I also think the reason it’s labeled a “disorder” is because it is first identified as a problem in school. If the kid just isn’t paying attention, or causing a distraction, there’s a problem. The kid may be very intelligent, creative, or gifted in other ways (which is often true of AD(H)D), but these will go unnoticed. Thus, what’s noticed are the problems - learning problems - and so it gets classified as a disorder rather than a gift.
But I can appreciate where you’re coming from as well. When there’s a profit to be made, doctors are that much more likely to diagnose AD(H)D so that they can prescribe medicines like ritalin. Also, parents may be more willing to accept such a diagnosis so that they don’t have to take the responsibility of instructing their kid with the proper skills for listening in school and doing their work (because sometimes it is a matter of laziness or lack of discipline). But I don’t think this warrants a blanket statement like “AD(H)D doesn’t exist”.
See, I do because I think the belief that ADD exists is actively destructive. It allows for a chemical supplement to bad parenting practices. Treating some of the symptoms without addressing the cause at all only allows the underlying problem to develop and metastasize. That isn’t to say that there isn’t a natural gradient of attention in society, there is. But so what? I’m all for better living through chemistry but not in the case of children who cannot properly consent to such optimization.
Let me ask you this: is your issue really with the existence of AD(H)D or with the medicating approach to treating it?
As for the articles, I agree with its attitude towards labeling the condition a “disease” or “disorder”, but to say that there are no physical differences between individuals with AD(H)D and those without is just plane wrong. Studies have shown that those with AD(H)D are more readily found to have less developped right frontal lobes, and other studies show some chemical differences (I forget the details).
Let me also ask you this: suppose your child was struggling in school and the teachers and other specialists (i.e. doctors) say that he shows definitive signs of AD(H)D. Are you going to allow the child to continue to stuggle because you don’t recognize the condition as a disease/disorder, that there is no reason to medicate because you’re certain that there’s no physical differences between him and the rest of the students? Keep in mind that ritalin has been shown to work in most cases. If you don’t medicate, what other options would you have? Better parenting? Different environment? After school exercises? Not that these won’t necessarily work, but let’s suppose they don’t, in which case you would be allowing your child to suffer poor grades through school, and in the long run, suffer other problems as well such as social/peer problems, conformity/rebellion problems, drug problems, self-esteme/confidence problems, vocational problems, problems with the law, etc. Would you be willing to risk all that just because you think it’s wrong to label the condition a “disease/disorder”?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting this is the inevitable consequence of a child with AD(H)D who doesn’t get put on ritalin; what I’m trying to do with this question is get a measure of your attitude on the issue. I want to know how radical your position is, how far you’d be willing to go if it was your child.
Both. I don’t think it exists in any substantial sense and I think the manner in which treating it is approached is absolutely insane. I can’t really separate the two because my problem with them is intertwined.
That is actually why I am so against ADD. The right frontal lobe shrinks when exposed to many drugs. This is most commonly seen in alcoholism but amphetamine, methylphenidate, and many other drugs prescribed for ADD also shrink the lobe. You’ll note that in all those studies, the ADD group had been undergoing treatment for a long time. It is a post-hoc analysis that conflates the cause of treatment with symptoms of treatment!
I am unaware of studies where they have control groups of non-medicated ADD-diagnosed people. Some are probably out there, but I haven’t found it.
I’d suggest that they tough it out and work with them, devote more time to them and redouble my efforts. Ritalin and amphetamine work irrespective of whether the child has ADD. Give Ritalin to a student “with ADD” and their grades improve. Give Ritalin to a student “without ADD” and their grades likewise improve. That is why these classes of drugs are so often abused on college campuses. I think that giving a child in that situation ADD drugs is the moral equivalent of feeding a child copious quantities of liquor before bed so they pass out and I can go about my business. Right? If your child were always staying up past their bedtime and was unruly around bedtime, would you advocate the alcohol approach? What is the difference?
Well, Xun, all I can say is that I highly doubt the truth of your position. I don’t know if AD(H)D kids need medication per se - maybe a different environment or learning approach might be best - but if I didn’t know better, I’d say you want to chalk it up to bad parenting or worse, that it’s the kid’s own fault for not paying attention. If only you knew what it was like to be a person with AD(H)D. Needless to say, I think your view is rather pernicious. It assumes a lot - too much - without nearly enough evidence. One should really be sure to have a mountain of evidence behind it before actually applying it to their children and the education system.
) but having meditated to give me focus since I was 3 it’s hard to say if I have it or not… which then begs the question: is it the result of an unruly mind?
). And I don’t think this dispositioning is a matter of choice or rearing. I could tell you stories of how desparately I’ve tried to overcome the challenges of AD(H)D in job situations or how oblivious I was to them in grade school (before I was put on ritalin). It ain’t laziness like so many are fond of assuming. I also think the reason it’s labeled a “disorder” is because it is first identified as a problem in school. If the kid just isn’t paying attention, or causing a distraction, there’s a problem. The kid may be very intelligent, creative, or gifted in other ways (which is often true of AD(H)D), but these will go unnoticed. Thus, what’s noticed are the problems - learning problems - and so it gets classified as a disorder rather than a gift.