it is a very tangled web…
-Imp
Zak:
Granted that those 12 million or so illegal aliens are here to stay, and granted that removing them all would cause some sort of negative economic implications you can’t deny the fact that what they are doing is unlawful, wrong, and unfair to all the “egal” immigrants.
You also have to see that in the long run rampant illegal immigration will ruin the U.S. or at least turn it into a socialist country, just look at most of Europe.
K: They are here to stay and yes it is not fair to legal immigrants.
That is part of the problem. There is no good plan out there as of
right now. I don’t believe that illegal immigration will “ruin” the U.S.
or turn of into a socialist country (of course only a few people
can tell me what so bad about being a socialist country
because of the rampant misunderstanding about socialism. people
just repeating the same old useless garbage about socialism.)
Kropotkin
Kropotkin: Google Illegal number of aliens U.S. and you get dozens of sites. The minimum of which suggest 7 million at the least and most
suggest the number is exactly what I say between 10 and 15 million.
I have not said any about health, education or taxes. I simply said
the number of illegals in the U.S. is x number of people. that all."
MAST: Approximations and guestimations. Irrelevant and spurious.
K: “guesses are all you get in this situation. You can say “irrelevant”
and “spurious” but it doesn’t change the situation. There are still over
10 million illegals in the U.S. Now what?”
MAST: Comprehension Mr. Kropotkin. Economic stresses related to illegals, given by state and Federal government.
K: Yah and? They are not much more then guess either.
K: Just who exactly do you think work the fields?
Illegal aliens have millions of jobs in the U.S. including
as I have said, restaurants and fields. If you remove cheap
labor from the fields, then the farm owners must pay much
more money for the head of lettuce. How do you suggest the
field get taken care of without illegal aliens? It would cost
much more money for the same head of lettuce that cost pennies
now, but will cost major bucks down the road.
The restaurants would not be open here in California without illegal aliens. Now I don’t know where you live, but I have lived in the
Midwest where farming is very, very important and I live in
California, where farming is very important. I see the illegals in
the fields whenever I travel across the central valley."
MAST: Bogus semantics. The value of the small farmer has already been destroyed in this country. Mechanize what is left, and illegals and their unnecessary presence and burden are no longer an issue.
K: again, I never said a word about small farmer or large farmer.
It is not really needed in this discussion. Where exactly do you live?
I have lived in farming states all my life. There are quite a few crops
because of their nature you can’t use mechanize means on. You must
hand pick. Now is illegals as needed as they once were? No, but
they are still needed and they still work cheap which keeps prices low
and still allows profit (and that my friend is economics 101)
K: actually, I still haven’t stated a position, because I still
haven’t heard of a plan that I think will work. From a
logistical standpoint, from the actual viewpoint of removing
that number of people, it is not possible. You can’t logistical
deport 10 to 15 million people."
Mast: State by state manhunt, one at a time. Deported or executed, their choice. Tax dollars for munitions is already commonplace, what’s a few more. The fact that they refuse to uproot corruption in their country does not give them the right to impose on ours.
K: How long did it take to find the unabomber and how much
money was spent? Your plan while I am sure is satisfieing to you,
is simple unworkable. You can’t execute people without seeing the
local neighborhood judge and the very act of putting that many
people in jail will collapse the judicial system. If you just execute
people without a trial, then you have become worse the Nazi
Germany and Stalin Russia, even they had show trials.
K: I never claim mass knowledge of economic. Economics
is really not that hard to understand. It is not that complicated.
Anytime I wonder about something, I call my brother who went to
the university of Chicago grad school in economics. We are quite
well off, thanks for asking."
MAST: Don’t come complaining to me. I understand economics.
Yes, there will be a major economic collapse. I am
sorry you don’t get that, but that is not my problem."
K: the problems is my use of the word mass.
Economics is actually quite easy to understand.
But when you get into the nitty gritty, for example
the trading imbalance between china and the U.S. for example,
then you need formula’s and numbers and all that fun stuff.
The basic idea is simple, but you get some complicated stuff in there.
If you buy more stuff from china, then they buy from you, you get
a trade imbalance going from here to there. but that does not
factor in things like the value of the dollar to the value of the
Chinese currency, whose name escapes me at the moment and other
things such as the current tariffs and all kinds of crap that can
change the numbers. That is more technical stuff and for the most
part only economist care about that minutiae.
MAST: Here you make an assertion that your knowledge and understanding is far superior to my own with regards to economics. I see no mention here of this being second hand information from a family member.
K: again it is pretty easy stuff. Macro: big, Micro: small.
economics can be ideas such as microeconomics which
is the study of the consumer for instance.
If you buy a widget for 10 bucks, what happens? That would be
micro, you talk about governments policy, that would be macro.
Now again, you can get in depth, like with tax policies and other
stuff, but in essence it is not hard.
K: You wish to have a ignorant attitude toward the American
people, be my guest."
MAST: More people are interested and attentive to American Idol and voting for its’ “candidates”, than are concerned with their civic responsibility and privilege with controlling the politics that guide this country. My assertion stands. You don’t like it, again, I offer you the sweat off my balls.
K: I have never seen idol and am really ok with that.
K: I have done far more to dissent against america, then you
have ever dreamed of. Don’t talk to me of dissent.
If you knew anything, you would understand
the name I have chosen for myself."
Mast: Really? Validate this claim, quantitatively and qualitatively please. I was unaware that you are so enamored of my person as to have such breadth and intimacy of contained knowledge.
K: Kropotkin, Russian anarchist, died in 1921.
I have chosen that name for the simple reason, I have a soft
spot in my heart for good ol peter. I was an anarchist for several
years during the 1980’s. I was appalled by reagan’s idiocy (still am)
and so I became an anarchist. I lived the life for several years,
went to conventions, (yep, even anarchist go to conventions)
did not pay or file income taxes, got a job under the table,
I was totally off the books. I did not have a car, or checking account,
or even an place to stay. I did not exist in American.
I did not give lip service to anarchism, I lived the life. I dissented
from america because of its actions. I did this for several years.
After a few years I rethought things, and changed into the liberal I am today. It was not cheap to get the IRS off my back and it took
several years for them to go away. I have been there and done it.
Not words, but actions."
Mast: Either you are quite flattering, which is doubtful, or the remainder of my post concerning your delusional mind state, is summarily supported. You do not now, nor ever will, know me. You have no idea what I have or have not done in my time of existence, and I care not to share it with you.
If you actually believe that some internets namesake is the/a measure of dissention, your dementia has attained a level I cannot ascribe to definition.
K: Well I walk into a room and can’t remember why I went into there
in the first place, but that is simple old age. I am totally honest with
everyone I met. I don’t lie, for the simple reason to lie, you gotta
remember the lie, and I can’t. So I don’t lie. Now if you wish to believe
in dementia, feel free. That would be one way to try to deny my
words, but if you wish to be in denial, be my guest.
MAST: And others actually baulk at my derisive commentary on the sad state of the Amerikan public … "
K: I have a bit more “faith” then you do. People want to do the right
thing, and given encouragement, they do. I trust them. For they are
not out there, in the mysterious ether, they are the people we see
every day. they are really us. Its how you look at it.
Kropotkin