AR-15 is a glorified pistol

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
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ar15.com/archive/topic.html … 5&t=458051

People really don’t apparently believe me when I say at close range, in which most mass shootings occur, it doesn’t much matter what weapon you use, be it a pistol or rifle, what matters is if it is magazine or chain fed, vs single shot.

Your basic AR-15 can be set up to fire either standard 5.56 rounds, which your grandfather in WW2 would of scoffed at for being too damn small (they used 7.62 back in the day) or set up to shoot a 9mm. You gotta change out the bolt and top part, but this isn’t difficult, the weapon is designed to come apart like this for daily maintence and cleaning.

Obviously, most people go for the 5.56 because they are veterans and that is what they do, but if your doing something task specific, that requires 9mm rounds, you can ditch the pistol and go for the scary looking rifle… but they both shoot the same damn thing. A person armed with a 9mm AR-15 doesn’t have much of a advantage in a fight over someone with a 5.56 AR-15 close range, minus body armor of course, such as the crowd in the Orlando Shooting.

A person simply armed with a 9mm pistol doesn’t have much of a advantage over someone with a 9mm AR-15 either. It largely comes down to skill and preference. I myself would go with the AR-15 only because my military background, I know I can sink the shots where they need to be… but this takes a lot of skill. I need to understand a lot more about aiming and breathing cycles, stances, how to walk with the rifle glued to my head, shooting only when steady, never off balanced. A pistol, it takes very little practice, you aim in the general direction and shoot.

The link above walks you through the setup. Why do this? Why not… it is a lousy, silly gun either way, and your much better off going for a real rifle like a M14 in my opinion than a M4/M16/AR-15 variant. They are all more or less the same gun. You can’t shoot long range accurately unless you know how to zero it, and it does no better at close range than your average gang bangers pistol.

So why then does the military have it, if it sucks so bad? Because… just fucking because. Some stupid gun manufacturer and a Senator got together during the Vietnam war, got rid of a,weapon that works well, most anyone becomes a instant expert shooter with (M-14) and traded off for some shaky wobbly piece of shit that if sacked the wring way requires you to spend a few hours on a firing range readjusting it. Yeah… I want to jump out of a Airplane with that piece of shit.

It has longer range than the AK-47 does, but isn’t nearly as reliable. AKs fire larger rounds too. In close combat, as long as both are functioning in skilled hands, they are equally dangerous. Its only when you start adding military sensors and Scopes to them, and go out into long ranged battles, the M4/AR-15 dominates. This being said, your average WW2 or Korean War infantryman minus all that gadgetry could go toe to toe with a modern soldier fueled by swagger and liquid courage… cause his damn weapon is of higher quality, designed for the rigors of combat, not for the rigors of congressional oversight committee looking on approvingly.

If you had some nutcase reaching for a AR-15 to shoot at say, vehicles on a highway.(happens occasionally), rifle otherwise najed, just ironsights, most trained snipers would scratch their heads questioning if this “sniper” was some sort of stupid. He will hit the vehicle, might wound some people, even make a few kills, but it isn’t going to be that “one shot, one kill” scenario he was hoping for. The gun sucks at range. M16s… the longer barrel predecessor of the rifle (Marines won’t even touch M4s, only M16s, they are still upset they had to give up the M14) shoot a little better. Most any other kind of rifle shoots a lot better.

Thats right… our main infantry weapon sucks balls, is no better than a pistol short range, can edge out a AK-47 long range, but a more antiquated force ironically has the advantage. Only reason it works today is due to all the gadgetry attacked to it, most of which you can’t easily buy (I can and have built low quality versions of some of it from Radio Shack and Walmart electronics), and dedicated tactics and training.

Your average impulse shooter doesn’t know how to get most of this information or training. He just sees army guys strutting around, or police acting badass with glasses and pocketed khakis… thinks if he had this, he could easily equal them. He can’t, not usually. Takes a while to learn how not to break it, how to keep it clean. If you bring it to a gangfight, you have no real advantage over someone whipping a old 9mm out on you. And as Faust noted in another thread, it sucks as a hunting rifle too. I am certain I could hunt with it, but it isn’t my first choice. Bullets might not kill it as fast as I would like. I’ve seen deer survive getting torn in half in carwrecks for quite a while, they don’t die easily, unless the weapon of choice is a minivan.

What makes a AR-15 a “high powered” military assault rifle? I don’t know. Sounds like a catch phrase from the movie The Wolf of Wall Street. It is a low powered rifle, shoots a little 5.56, or a 9mm. Ever infantry team (outside of the Ranger A Team and Special Forces of Course, or Delta) in the US Army has to carry around a actual high powered 5.56 rifle, called a M249 SAW. Shoots the same ammo, just a lot more, and much better. If people were crying after a massacre that this gun needs banned… and I assure you it would be a terrible massacre that would make Orlando look like a picnic, that I would say such a person was most sane and correct in their assertions. It is designed to kill, no bulkshitting around.

How big is a Infantry Team? About 2-3 guys. For every 2-3 guys, one is expected to carry a real rifle, capable of dealing mass carnage, so his weaker buddies can run up close enough to make the kill. Two teams make a Squad, and four squads make a Platoon. One of these squads in each platoon dispenses with the M249, and goes for something much larger. I’m not even gonna discuss it, cause no crazy terrorist is likely to do much with it if he finds one. He will have a hard time lifting it, and would have a hard time walking in anyplace shooting at close range with it. He would be very easy to take down in fact if he tried… it’s meant for longer range, letting your other squads get close, so their heavy weapon can let your pussy ass light infantryman with M4s get in for the kill, against better armed opponents. Remember, a M4 and AR-15 are almost the same weapon, nearly identical. So when people cry out “high powered military assault rifles” I raise a eyebrow. Notice nobody calls a sniper rifle a assault rifle? Why? Cause they don’t gotta run up and assault. A assault rifle really isn’t a high powered rifle, unless your carrying a support weapon like that SAW I mentioned.

It is a stinky, retarded system.

I will cover the firing settings in my next post.

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The AR-15 isn’t able to shoot in full auto. I think in fact it may only be able to shoot single shots. This shit doesn’t matter, because the higher settings is useless, especially in a massacre. I don’t know why the left gets so damn excited over full automatic fire functions. Your average magazine is 20 rounds, but let’s say we go with Smears observations and do 30 round magazines.

On full auto, you pull the trigger… bullets come out rapidly, until they stop. This is very bad, if you gotta kill multiple targets and have a finite ammo supply. Why? Most of your bullets are gonna end up in… just one or two people. Yes, you almost certainly killed them if they aren’t armored… but those bullets could of been used elsewhere… on other people. In combat, you gotta economize your ammo, cause you don’t know when your going to get more. In theory, 1 shot can equal 1 kill, if you never miss and each results in a kill. Obviously, not every shot hits home, even with modern technology… lasers are falliable when your rifle gets knocked around even at stupid close range… what seems like a certain hit 50 yards away can still miss, even when your weapon is shooting center mass in someone’s torso… hence why the AR-15 just sucks balls.

A idiot entering into a nightclub, with a illegally modied AR-15 (oh my God, he illegally modified it, nooooooo!) will almost certainly kill far less people than someone shooting on a more selective setting. You want to shoot either one round or short bursts of 2-3 rounds. What you are doing when you walk in with a rifle, blowing away on full auto is… your really killing the fuck out of that first one or two unlucky bastards in the way, and then no one else… on a 20 round magazine. On a 30, 2-4 mayby if your a idiot holding down the trigger, and they are close together. A 30 round mag should kill 30 people, not 2-4 pretending your Rambo. It will also seriously heat up your rifle. This setting is meant for scared shitless Vietnam War draftees shooting off into the jungle, as a platoon in unison when some Vietcong with a old French rifle is sniping at them, walking away laughing his ass off. Does such a setting qualify for Faust’s “Get your dick hard” effect? Yes… but only to idiots with no real understanding or experience. I don’t want anyone massacring anyone, but if it happens, I would prefer it to be on this setting than single shot, people have a better chance of surviving, in terms of raw numbers, though admittedly it would give them worst PTSD nightmares hearing that replay in their dreams. It looks scary, is deadly on the receiving end, but does much less damage that you would think to a crowd.

I’ve seen some odd laws, and attempted laws, for these weapons. Banning Bayonets… holy fucking shit. Honestly, you fucking retards. Has anyone ever made a kill with a bayonet with a M4, M16, any AR-15 varient? Do you realize how sad a bayonet looks in these stupid weapons? You only whip them out on parade or when peacekeeping, and want to intimidate some curious Africans who never saw your weapons before, and get too damn close. I’ve only heard of one unit sharpening their bayonets, and that is illegal… I used to slam my hand down hard on the tip on them, pointing out how dull they are… they can’t cut butter. Nobody is charging up a hill to disembowel anyone with these, nobody if fighting off a Calvary assault with them. It is a silly fucking leftover, most never leave the armory. Why it has this function is beyond me. Most flags with the pointy tip is more lethal than a bayonet, including if they are cheap Chinese plastic tips. I would sooner trust my damn fists or rocks than that stupid bayonet. Fuck that bayonet. Looks scarier than it is, you stab someone, you ruin your attachments, likely knock everything off kilter, gotta rezero everything again. Why? So you can say you were the first to get a combat kill with it… it’s a fucking shirt barrel rifle.

Thus scares people on the left though. “Oh nooooo, we can’t have bayonets”. Can a have a duct taped to it then? Equally effective. Or Erik’s Spartan Sword? LightSaber? Thats not the strength of this model of carbine. It isn’t meant to be thruster into someone. Think some Senator was pissed his bayonet factory would be closed if the M14 was phased out.

Another is M203 attachments. I don’t think it would of worked in this setting honestly. The round only goes off if it hits a target hard, and needs to travel 14-38 meters (thought it was 50 yards, internet says 24-38 meters) before it is even primed for that. Reason why is… it can take out large number of guys, like any grenade can, and army learned that this, like any weapon, can accidentally discharge. No team want this thing going off accidentally on them.

It more than likely couldn’t go off inside a nightclub. Might smack someone in the head and give them a serious concussion…

It does more than just shoot grenades. Shoots very colorful festive smoke. I shit you not. Army things if you run through the festive smoke, enemy will never see you coming. More or less signals your coming, but can work as a screen for retreat, under select circumstance… but usually just signals your leaving.

It can shoot bean bags too… this is a awesome setting. I honestly would advocate for a rifle used in home defence to either have a M203 with a beanbag in it, or a taser grip… so you have non-lethal options. My recommendation on this forum has usually been rubber ball shotgun, or beanbag shotgun, with a taser grip. I don’t see a good reason to ban a civilian variation of the 203 for shooting only bean bags, never grenades… your triggers can differ. I don’t know if such a option exists, but if your only weapon for home defence is your inherited AR-15, I think they should be allowed this option. I’m obviously not big on grenades themselves. I can tolerate smoke grenades, but got a feeling a lot if smucks will set that shit off in their house… a boon for carpet cleaners and paintmen, but largely pointless.

What else? Oh… pistol grips. Why ban a pistol grip on a 9mm AR-15, but allow it on a equally deadly 9mm pistol? People are scared of guys shooting off the hip? Again, it is a precision weapon. I only learned how to effectively do that using a M4 from a week straight, day and night of being attacked with sim rounds (non-lethal bullets for this sort of weapon, glorified paintball wars, cost 1 million dollars a day to train for our battalion, for reasons I can’t fanthom. I will never understand that absurd price tag, if you said $5000 a day for food, ammo, electricity… yeah, not $1 Million).

Most guys do not have a battalion of paratroopers attacking them for a week straight, so they can get to the point of taking the rifle off their cheek when they walk blindsided, looking down the scope, and just shoot. I was nailing guys within 200-300 yards fine… after a while. That isn’t something most noons can start off with, you try that, you will miss. It us a precision weapon.

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So why this thread? I wanted to lay the facts out on this shitty weapon. Is it something to be feared? Yes. Can it massacre? Yes… but not really anymore so than any magazine or chain fed weapon.

It wasn’t that big of a deal to weapon buyers if AR-15s to take away your Full Auto burst settings, cause it was quickly pointed out by veterans that refuse to use that setting anyway. Nobody won a victory in the battle against guns or violence that day in banning it, only reason it passed was because of how stupid and inconsequential the rule was… if we really needed it fixed to full auto… such as a hypothetical Second American Revolution", it would be a easy fix, but I doubt most unit commanders would want that.

Banning bayonets… okay… you your clearly showing how clueless you are to your equally clueless constituency. That legislation save zero lives. If anything, it cost lives, because it took the place of a legitimate gripe that would of actually of been effective. Guys in NY just sawed off, or bought one without that little retarded nub. Many likely didn’t even know what it was till they found out it suddenly was illegal… they still have a shitload of AR-15s in these states.

What is lethal about the AR-15 is the magazine capacity. Period. It is no more lethal than any other magazine fed weapon. Saying “only ten round magazines” was a hell of a lot smarter than most other attempts at making it less lethal. Issue is… these magazines are easy to modify. Like, you go to Lowes, or Home Depot, or Harbor Freight… you can make it any length you want, with a minimal skill set… if you had to. You don’t need to, cause the market is exploding with these larger mags. Most states don’t care. It only hurts the honest, and the impulse buyer who doesn’t shop around.Some of your terrorists land in the impulse buy category, so I will say this may “possibly” save lives, unlike removing the autofire settings, which likely killed many more people senselessly but forcing these gunmen to select and shoot ever more people.

Easiest way in my mind, is to force a draconian change on all magazine weapons… they need to have the magazine well on the bottom welded shut, and side cut open, allowing a magazine no larger that 5 rounds to be placed inside, and this needs to be a curved, not straight magazine… curling towards the trigger on rifles, and the opposite direction for pistols.

Why? You can obstruct the magazine well so straight mags can’t enter and be pushed up on any rifle or pistol. Your stuck with a limited capacity… any larger, it won’t fit on a rifle like the AR-15, or dig into your underwrist on a pistol… but can still be carried openly in a holster.

5 rounds, you can carry as many 5 round clips you want. Infantry train to be experts dropping 20 round clips rapidly and replacing them. It causes a pause in their firing. A curved 5 round clip would set them seriously off.

Thats my more realistic suggestion. None of this stupid shit on nitpicking pointless aspects of the rifle, or claiming it us more lethal than a pistol… for most actual shootings, it is not. It just is more flashy, looks scary and is the weapon of choice for military wannabes. It isn’t responsible for more shootings though, as I pointed out to UPF on several occasions… pistols are. At close range encounters, they are equally, if not more deadly, because you can conceal them, they don’t Fuck up generally as the M4 does in unskilled hands, and you don’t have to press your head to the buttstock to look down the ironsights on a pistol. If you desire to be realistic, about getting tough on Orlando type shootings, your goal isn’t assault rifles, it is any and all magazine and chain fed weapons. You got a nasty constitutional hurdle to cross doing that, but at least you won’t sound laughably ignorant in doing so. Your more likely to develop a educated, effective argument if you know the facts. Up till now, in this post, most wouldn’t of known I took the issue seriously from a left perspective (I’m a Independent, not a Republican) and was willing to have a serious discussion about real, effective solutions. It isn’t possibly though with the inherited, bad baggage the left carries on this topic. You got a history of asserting really bad ideas. My idea of welding the bottom of magazine shafts is new, as is the curved magazines that interfere if expanded with aiming, holding. Never been tried before. Fresh idea, effectively turns it almost into a single bolt action rifle like you see across Europe. Can someone modify it? Yes, just like they can fix a AR-15 to be on full auto, but 99% won’t, because their crimes are heat of the moment, or your impulse buyer needing to kill right now lacks the skills and just wants to get his shooting spree over with.

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You’re right, there are better guns than the AR15. Here’s one of my favorites. The FRF1 military assault sniper rifle with a 7.5x54mm caliber spec. One shot, one kill.

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Obligatory reminder that the AR-15 wasn’t actually used at the Orlando shooting.

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It was almost identical, I’ve seen the parts for it, certain I could strip it and put it back together blindfolded. They actually made me do that shit out of boredom, winter in Alaska can be very long. The point they are nitpicking is the gas system… whatever. Exact same damn gun, just like every box fan is the same box fan, despite the micro-nuances.

We may have our first case of a modern home manufactured gun used in a violent altercation. A British MP has just been assassinated, stabbed to death. When a guy from a dry cleaner ran out to stop him, he whipped out a very off looking gun he thought might be home made.

foxnews.com/world/2016/06/16 … bbing.html

I honestly wouldn’t trust the current models of guns floating on the net for 3-D printers, might very well explode on me, but we have far superior commercial grade AR-15 like guns for teenagers to shoot pellets and paintballs with that can be converted over for firing with little modification… we have heat resistant plastics on the market too. It is only going to be a few years till paintball enthusiasts around the world get their homemade guns up to near military specs, with plans floating around. If it is “illegal”, they can still make it, shoot it, melt and recycle it to get a feel for it. We are quickly exiting the era where we can just ban stuff at random, market forces are escaping the capacity of the state to reasonably restrict. It is why it is important that if we have laws that restrict, they be of a reasonable and intelligent character, and not of a nature easily thrown aside in contempt as political motivated and ignorant. Most people are going to have ready access to these weapons in their own homes soon at a mere press of a button. Making a Frankenstein joke of a legal version… like what happened when you banned aspects (mostly pointless aspects) just makes the entire affair laughable. We become no safer from most of the current demands by the left being put forth. A wholesale van on all firearms will spur these printers like no other force can. Randomly banning one kind of magazine fed weapon over another shifts the violence to those other guns, that are historically more lethal… it terms of actual murders committed using firearms.

It is far more important we emphasize wise laws, not knee jerk ignorant laws, encourage dealerships than fall under the scope of the law as long as possible, instead of turning the traffic to a torrent site, because at least we have some control over the former, encourage civic responsibility in registering your weapon, in maintaining a legal weapon (they will scorn you and make it illegal if you push them with unreasonable demands that make no sense), to have them properly stored, properly carried, safely used in ranges and hunting, and used only in extremities of home defence and against community threats, such as against terrorists or lone gunmen.

I’m not really that into guns, don’t like these stupid make of guns, would avoid them if I could. I liked my M14 in the army, hated my M4. No soldier should be asked to carry the one first, then the other after. I manage to make do without any in my daily life. I recommend non lethals, which oddly enough are illegal in some states, because the loons on the left don’t get what they are banning, and what that leaves everyone with to defend themselves with… crap like these guns.

That is a nice gun Joker… and the Orlando Shooter would of had a very low kill count with it, kicking open the doors using it as his primary. More effective just to run loose with a Samurai Sword for close range chaos.

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Presenting a good close range gun. Desert Eagle Semi Automatic Pistol: Caliber .357 Magnum

Can come up to nine bullets in a clip.

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I think they get up to at least 15 rounds for select magazines, it has been a very long time since I looked into them. Nothing really stopping you from going higher, look at this stupid mag for a Glock. Who would buy this? People denied AR-15s and Assault Rifles.

I want everyone arguing about the assault weapons ban, the kind who argue silly stuff like the absolute necessity of banning bayonets and expanding stocks (why?), to burn this image in their heads. That can hold 100 rounds, roughly equal to Orlando. Sucks if he is carrying a spare, cause that is double the mayhem. This is something much easier to print too on a printer.

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I’ve been going to gun shows since I was in a stroller and have probably owned over 100 different kinds of guns over the years. Since I was a small child I remember hearing people saying that the left was going to take away all the guns and that they’re going to ban ammunition and that they’re going to make lists and seize everyone’s shit and all that and the fact of the matter is simply that there has never been a time where there was anything gun related that if you wanted to buy it you couldn’t. You may have to fill out one of those yellow forms or you may have to get a tax stamp or form a gun trust, but only in extreme circumstances where you’re looking for something that’s full auto or suppressed or that has a ridiculously short barrel. Mags over 10 rounds grandfathered in, receivers made before certain dates, grandfathered in and anything you bolt to them is grandfathered in.

The only thing I can think of is that the pro gun people are also pro money, because they use scare tactics to raise prices every time a democrat gets elected.

I remember when you could get a crate of 20 sks rifles still in the cosmolene for 1800 bucks. A wooden shipping crate of chinese 7.62x39 rifles for 1800 dollars. Next thing you know…“they’re gonna take our guns!” then they went up to 200 each, then to 289, now they’re more than that for the same damn gun that you used to get for under 100 bucks.

I went through an old, sealed cache of ammo that my dad had and found bricks of .22lr that had price tags on them where they’d been bought for 9.99 per 500 rounds and now they’re over 50 bucks for the same thing. The ammo has always been available and it’s always been abundant…and I don’t think the massive increase in the price has led to the left wing gun control people getting some kind of check in the mail…so I dunno. You tell me.

Typical scumbag business behavior.

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Oh yeah none of that post applies if you live in California.

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Why would you need a hundred guns? You can almost arm a infantry company with that amount… at least three platoons.

It isn’t illegal, but is unreasonable unless you were on the verge of opening a gun shop yourself.

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bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36505504
Wow, he took a grenade to the head. The M203 attachment is a grenade launcher, it attached to a M4 and almost certainly a AR-15. Like I said, it has to fly a certain distance before arming, so idiots like this group of soldiers don’t blow themselves up.

I honestly didn’t think it moved fast enough to do this though. Got stuck in this guy’s head. Part that pisses me off is that they are trying to send him back to his unit days after having a grenade shot into his fucking head. Man… the guy deserves after that a very, very long vacation and right to retire early. Someone shot a grenade INTO his head.

I can’t even imagine what his platoon will be like afterwards. Everyone will just be silent around him. What can you really say to a guy in terms of criticism to a guy who survived that? Of course he is going to freak out on anyone not handling that weapon correctly anymore. Just get flustered, start yelling and half his face falls off, prosthetics flapping, eyes buldging from PTSD. “point that fucking weapon elsewhere soldier”… I would just die if I was a new recruit under those conditions.

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You Yanks and your guns :icon-rolleyes: it’s all about da knife crime here you know! but because it’s all about da knife crime here… even just being caught with a knife on you here now incurs the same sentence as a gun and sometimes even more due to intent and criminal history.

An inner London weapon amnesty box is a sight to behold :wink:

You ain’t got no limp young man… you’ve got a 3 foot cutlass down your pants :open_mouth:

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Everyone is well aware of the UK’s violence issues, it outstrips the US, save in actual homicides. This is my point, soon that barrier the government there cleverly put up banning guns will collapse into nothingness, with 3-D printed guns. Stuff is still in it’s infancy, but the paintball guns on the market give you a good idea the direction it can go in in terms of sophistication. Many of these already can be modified to shoot actual rounds for a short amount of time. If you had one of these toys, and a $900 3D scanner, or just lots of time with a CAD program, you could print these anywhere. One the file exists and is loaded on a torrent site, it becomes a lot easier. Nothing clever liberals can do about it, hell, many helped make it possible by path finding P2P programs, illegal music downloads, etc.

I’m not saying it will switch overnight, everyone running loose with this stuff. I see groups like ISIS experimenting with alternative fuel bullets, since they can’t get bullets the traditional way with high grade powder… they are trying to get them to work in traditional rifles designed to handle the exhaust of powder shot, not flammable liquids, everything acts differently, your firing pins and gases behave differently, as well as the recoil. However, there are a few million teenage boys around the world addicted to paintball wanting ever more realistic play… they are going to rapidly erode this. What do you think this amnesty book will start filling up with at that point? Do you really think every 15 year old is gonna resist printing one out just for a quick try? Shit is gonna start stacking up around the world, there isn’t going to be a country without guns flooding the street. It was very clever to ban it, but it resulted in a complete collapse of societal competency in handling gun issues. The US isn’t gonna explode with this tech, we have system upon redundant system and societal expectations on gun ownership, and cultural traditions in handling them responsibly. Liberal Democratic areas, not so much, but most of the country, yes. I think England and Europe is just gonna burn however in response, and everyone will naturally want to print their own guns to protect themselves when the hooligans like in Brussels are running loose and the police are seen as completely inept and against everyone’s desire to survive.

London = Somalia

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Hello Mr. Ferguson

Look, I’m sure that a trained person can do more with a gun than with an assault weapon, but the issue here is not with trained people but with video-game trained people. They see an assault rifle as an “upgrade”. Having a limited magazine means that you have to be a good marksman to inflict a lot of damage. Once people realize that you’re shooting at them they will stand to run and if you are a bad shooter with a gun with a limited amount of bullets, chances are that you will miss many targets before you have to reload, which creates more opportunities for people to escape. A person with an assault rifle, with a 30 round magazine, doesn’t have to be a particularly good shooter as you have more bullets to waste trying to hit targets. The time when that person is deadly is longer than a person with a gun giving people less chances to escape except through a hail of bullets.

All of these are options but the question is whether ANY option will be taken, because at this point I think that the NRA (and their surrogates) will block any form of legislation, sensible or draconian even for the sake of protecting children from deranged fellows with assault rifles. Children shouldn’t not have to face any weapons, but even less weapons of war.

Your suggestion makes sense to someone like me, but many NRA members will see this as a “draconian” measure, a blatant attack on their Constitutional right. Do we have the bi-partisan support for ANY government regulation, that’s the question. After Sandy Hook, when children were killed by weapons with high capacity magazines, I thought that something would happen, but nothing was passed that would make a difference. Why is it so hard to recognize the weakness that ISIS has already identified? After terrorists used aircraft as weapons we moved quickly to create regulations that would limit such thing from ever occurring again. Why is it so hard to enact safety guards for this? It is not just people that want to take ALL guns away (which I’m sure there are some that prefer this, tough I do not support this) but even some gun-owners agree that some regulation on assault weapons should be instituted.
Assault rifles might not be the deadliest weapon available for trained professionals but it is no coincidence that people in Africa for example use assault weapons when they want to arm children.

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How long do you think.a AR-15 would last in the hands of African child soldiers? It would get dirty and stop functioning.

That is one of my points about this gun… it isn’t friendly for a novice. This guy had such a high kill rate because people were trapped, for some bizarre reason texting on the phone instead of beating him to death with anything they could pry off the wall when he entered the bathroom.

I’m gonna have to drop $6,000 on a UV video camera first, it can detect the wavelengths for drugs and explosives, so has a much higher priority, but afterwards I guess I can do the modifications to a basic AR-15 and make the magazines, put the plans on the net, show it can work. I see no reason why it wouldn’t make a acceptable compromise for long term ownership. Naturally someone can cut the metal and return it back to military spec, but think it is foolish to say use only small mags when larger mags are readily available.

I recalled this morning, the M16 also had a Rocket Attachment… looks like a balling ball attached to it. I showed it to our 1SG one night (we were both insomniacs, his wife didn’t like him much, so stayed often in his office)… we were both shocked. I will see if I can find it… technically legal to add a ricket to your AR-15, but no fucking bayonet. It was the most absurd attachment I’ve ever seen. Big green ball.
M16 RAW (dumb fucking attachment)

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Oh, not everyone runs, a lot of people just Dodge, drop, hide. We have some excellent hiders. I think if I wasn’t able to fight back, I would probably get scared and hide like a good little primate in a very improbable to consider spot. The rates of most mass shootings, even when heavily decked out, are usually much lower because they don’t know the tech, the learning curve is higher than people running, and cops show up somewhat fast. I’m very upset this case… had both a front and back door, only one shooter, they didn’t immediately rush the place… he can only cover one door.

I’ve had a M4 in enough practice getting stormed in training to know, that M4 doesn’t do much even when you know they are coming, have furniture all knocked down in a maze for them to trip on in,… it won’t save you. Might shoot one cop, perhaps two… but not 3-4. We use those stacks for a reason… so any room being charged is taken, even if we take casualties. In Orlando, a hundred people get shot, bleeding to death… fucking police decide to negotiate, wait 3 hours, have Swat waiting around… fucking morons decide to punch holes in the wall. That place should of been stormed from and back the second two officers showed up. One back, one front. Stupid simple, they got body armor, rush the damn place.

18

How the fuck do you accurately hit anything with a self-propelled projectile the size of a honeydew mellon with no barrel, fins, or tail? Why doesn’t it just go flying off on some random direction or spin around in the air and fall straight down like bottle rocket with the stick cut off or a balloon with the air rushing out? I mean, I’m not doubting it works, I just don’t get how.

19

Don’t know, wouldn’t want to try it, it was a Marine toy, emphasis on toy. They take a lot of hand me Downs from the Army, stuff we stopped using years earlier they still use (hey, if we got it in stock still, whatever), but sometimes they get clever and design some shit like this. I mean sarcastic clever, not Einstein clever. If I wanted to project a explosive, not using a grenade or hand held rocket or RPG, I would probably just do what they did during WW2, hollow out a shotgun shell, stick a rod in it, explosive on the end, and launch it like a mortar. Shotgun makes more sense than puny rifle.

This is… it is just bad. I’m sure it works great, some old vet will come here and curse me out about how great it was and solved all the problems, and how the AT4 was a horrible, redundant replacement… I still don’t want to shot this fucking thing. Just seems comically silly, like it is gonna zip and zoop left and right, forward and backwards and chase a duck instead of going where it was meant to be going. Under Democratic Anti-Gun laws in some states, you can have that silly shit attached… but NOT a bayonet… oh fucking God, he has a silly bayonet, run!

20

In what way? Do Somilians like knives over guns too?

I find Somalians quite unrefined in comparison to Ethipians and Eritreans… call either a Somalian and you’ll never hear the end of it. :open_mouth: