Are poor people responsible for their condemnation?

Simple question:

Are poor people responsible for their condemnation, personal torment and poverty?

I can’t wait to look at all the replies that comes into the thread starting tomorrow.

Condemnation? :-s I’d hazard… a no?

Yes.

Sometimes.

You assume an awful lot on behalf of ‘poor’. :unamused:

Partially, yes. But, their environment, their upbringing (parents and teachers), their sheer luck, can effect the outcome of a person.

In a sense, all this stuff doesn’t matter that much because it’s more of a choice than anything else. Everyone has the potential to not be poor if they are determined not to be.

Does a poor person think less of themselves because they are poor? I would say maybe, because it all depends on what they want out of life.

I’m not rich, but I don’t see myself as a poor person.

Murex said it well enough for me.

Explain the reasons please.

By all means please elaborate for the rest of us.

Show an example please.

Granted.

Not true.

It should be noted that every society has an ideal standard that they mark of what they see as the good or appropiate citizen and should anyone be outside of it’s measure of influence the choice is forfeit to them largely because of their own inability in their own will to conform with such practices.

Naive idealism.

Many poor people have the determination to get out of their situation but have the lack of means to it by that of economical moral barriers or societal ideals of a better form in living that barricades them from any course of action.

That is a symptom from a long history of people condemning their lives for not matching their own ideal moral version of living.

I would have you reply to the previous post just like Murex to explain yourself.

Depends if you’re born poor, dragged into being poor, or got poor.

It depends, like how?

I think everyone is responsible for their state. Even those who are oppressed beyond belief have the ability to martyr themselves. The world doesn’t have the resources nor the will to give everyone the option of being rich, but everyone still has choices.

If you’re born into being poor, there really no responsibility on your account, cause who chooses their parents?

If you’re dragged into being poor, like having almost everything taken from you, theres no responsibility.

If you got yourself into being poor, like gambling or being careless with money, then yes, you are responsible.

Yes poor people are poor because of the perceived value of ideals, culture, language, money, etc. Are they responsible? At some point yes they must be held responsible for their state of being. Someone isn’t poor until it’s known to him/her that he/she is poor.

Is it the fault of the exploiters that the exploited are exploitable? I don’t think there is any fault at all.

Thank you, but I must politely refuse.

A person that remains poor throughout their life is often a self made victim. Meaning they for what ever reason decided to stay at poverty level. Either they chose not to leave their environment or they had no ingenuity or drive to make a better life or they are physically or mentally handicapped to the point that they are incapable of improvemnet without assistance.
Now some countries a poor person can’t just move. The country forbids this sort of action unless you can afford proper papers and permission.

In most free countries this is not so. If you have two legs and are of reasonable health you can go anywhere you choose. you don’t need a vehicle nor great amounts of cash, just a will and health. You can move yourself to a place that allows you to improve. Or you can find a niche where you are at, fill it and improve your lot that way. Or you can commit robberies, deal drugs, murder for hire etc,. Improve yourself by being a criminal. Of course this only works if you have half a brain to keep from getting caught.

We all can change ourselves, unless hindered by laws or health. The poor are no exception. Where did the middle classes come from? Mostly poverty level, not wealthy level.

If a person has the will, reasonable health and is not hindered by laws or does not allow laws to hinder them, They can change. So yes, we poor are responsible for our condemnation. I say we because I spent most of my adult life at poverty levels., Not any longer. Good ol ass bustin and thinking works wonders.

The problem with your view is that you fail to account the dominantly narrow standards that controls everyone’s lives.

( Noone is exempt from this idealistic standard either hence devoiding all choice altogether.)

It is like you are saying everyone has choices so long as they are complacent to that one encompassing ideal of society in exact conformity.

Isn’t gambling a symptom of a greater whole outside of the individual’s control?

Your other two positions are granted.

Why the refusal?

Deeming someone else poor is based upon some form of judgement but if you look at it more closely it’s application of economical utility really is a moral judgement in disguise.

I dare anyone to prove to me that the judgement of deeming one poor or un-useful is not a moral utility on the part of a society down to it’s ideal of what a successful economy is.

I am not talking about good or evil nor am I talking about right and wrong.

I want to know how the poor become accessible to condemnation, poverty, and alienation.

Where does this positioning of people come from?

So far I have come to the conclusion that the poor exist by other’s moral judgements of their capabilities in living that revolves around a ideal society where those that don’t meet the conceived moral qualifications are rooted out unto ridicule their entire lives.