Are we wolves, sheep, or merely half-awake children?

Are we wolves, sheep, or merely half-awake children?

“It seems that the majority of men are suggestible, half-awake children, willing to surrender their will to anyone who speaks with a voice that is threatening or sweet enough to sway them.”—Fromm

If we, women and men, are merely sheep then why is our history so different from a sheep-like society? Even the half-awake child will note that our history has been written in blood. Such a situation has led people, such as Hobbes, to say “man is a wolf to his fellow man”.

Is it our true nature to be wolves and only inhibitions prevent us from exposing our fangs? I do not think so, for there are countless opportunities each day to bare our vicious fangs if such was our nature. There are many possible explanations for this conundrum.

Building things only to destroy them and killing others seems to be our human purpose. But massive destruction and killing are really the result of leaders who seek to further their own interests. These leaders are no different from you or I; it is the power they hold that makes it possible for them to escalate the ordinary selfish motives we all harbor. “The ordinary man with extraordinary power is the chief danger for mankind—not the fiend or the sadist.”

Of course Hitler alone did not threaten civilization; he required the herd of citizens who harbored passions of hate and fear to act as an accomplice to destruction and death. Fromm sites the three forms of human orientation as being the fault that makes such a history of destruction possible.

A ‘syndrome of decay’ that “prompts men to destroy for the sake of destruction, and to hate for the sake of hate” form the basis for “the most vicious and dangerous form of human orientation; these are love of death, malignant narcissisms, and symbiotic-incestuous fixation.”

Would you say that humans resemble more as wolves, sheep, or merely half-awake children?

Ideas and quotes from “The Heart of Man: Its Genius for Good and Evil” by Erich Fromm

This at first sight seems to be a great reason not to think humanity are sheep. (I hope that is true ultimately) There are deep seeded possibilities that, may explain why we dont appear to be like sheep ‘societies’ ( some might argue that we do anyway)

If we look into the past, there are many people that where born into positions of great influence weath, in their lives they did what are seemingly great things or at least ‘lead’ people to do ‘things’. We might say those leaders, who inherited their positons, where great and had will to do what they did, or that they simply had no other choice(seemingly) to do what they did. Their circumstances dictated what they where to do. It maybe just accident that monumental things have happened in humanities past, rather than our own will to do great things. (this assuming we have free will and only talking about herd mentality) I have trouble thinking of something that humanity has done, that we we’ren’t told to do on some level.

We do have some hope though. There are many ‘stories’ at least of individuals who have defied and surprised us in a good way.

Bahh

The ease at which the “civilized man”(if there is such a beast)drifts through life would give him the appearence of possesing an aloof, carefree and even docile nature. We have no need for survival skills like hunting, fighting and as such we have very little oppurtunity to cut our teeth so to speak.

When most of your life is an easy flowing process with little resistence, the lack of struggle can lead to weakness. Someone who has barely had to exert themselves would be less apt to put up a fight than someone who has to struggle for every meal.

Now, when it comes to violence and destruction. I would venture to assume that most distruction has its motives and we are not a society that destroys for the sake of distruction by any means. Do the rebels in Iraq or Lebanon or Afganistan or Somolia not have a reason for they’re violence? Does the clearing of land not fufill a purpose? Does the industrialization of our nations, and in turn damage of our planet not have its uses?

I would say that we are wolevs when we deem it appropiate and in most cases , for the “lucky ones” they have little need to consider it appropriate.

I find the either, or questions difficult to answer due to the fact that it is never that clear cut. I would say that we are all three at one point or another and sometimes two states at once. The angry mob can be said to a wolf and sheep, the dictator, wolf and half awake child, and the general population in their day today task half awake child and sheep. I have reason to believe that in all of us an element of each exists but there is a more reasoned and intellegent process that controls us ultimately.

Trevor

I would say that destruction and replacement are an necessary part of progress within a capitalistic society. War being the very best form especially when the war is not fought on our territory.

I’m not any of those.

I’m a Viking.

:sunglasses:

With regard to the original discussion It would be immature of us accepting the fact that we are children but It would be interesting if we were to analyze the deviant behavior that is inherent in humanity. Can wolves be sheep;whats common in them, the uniting factor ??

Wolves or Sheep - the opposites

Evil/bad has meaning only when good exists but domination is everpresent and in going into detail is very complex and the factors innumerable to asses explicitly. It can be presumed that no being can outrightly claim to be either good or evil because on first thought it leads to sectarian notions therefore do we fear sectarianism or do we fear (good and evil).

Either way its fear but are we correct in presuming humanity to be in fear ??? The solution lies in understanding the absolute reality and knowing this is trivial.

Axiomatically we are both which exist in time. I am good now and I am bad later. Can i exert duality at a singular moment ??? If that is the case then this state of being will totally be neither of the opposites but something without an opposite and its quite hard to imagine a state of being that has no opposite and this is the absolute reality and the opposites secondary to this state of being from which stemed opposites are different only in relative behavior or action.Hence opposites are really relative and it loses meaning if all humanity are one (like if you are the only person in this world) and that is absolute reality, the Primal state.

Unity is the solution. (Analyzing the present trend, its not easy but possible)

Then we can totally forget about wolves or sheep or half-awake children or we can say we are all these and everything else…

Sheep become content and blend in easily. They lack the character and reason to stand out or challenge the prevailing dogma of any nation at any time. They follow any shepherd and willingly give of their milk and wool, finding in that giving the reasons for living, their self-esteem and their virtues.

Wolves require wilderness to get lost in and hide and breed their own. In the absence of these open spaces they turn vicious, as all caged animals do or they remain adolescents like dogs.

Children, wolves become when they have no other option. They learn to forget and laugh and enjoy. They suckle the sheep and play and grow and…wait.

too say we were either wolves or sheep would imply that we were either docile or agressive, but we are, fortunatly or unfortunatly, both depending upon an individuals standingpoint. you will likely find that to be the case depending on circumstances but for humanity to be either way we would need to have a natural inclination towards that lifestyle, and so it would likely be either a majority thing or a hidden cheracteristic of ours.

I think that the Ideal comparison would be to take this argument and place it by a tribal community where social values have not perverted the issues. for a tribal community is still the closest we can get to basic human nature.

You should have had a poll:

wolves, sheep, merely half-awake children, or other

90% would have probably chosen “other”. I know I would have.

Death and destruction are not part of a ‘syndrome of decay’, rather the opposite: the attitude that peace, passivity, and equality is desirable is part of the true syndrome of decay. That we cannot accept destruction as a creative process and an affirmation of life, that we cannot accept the dynamics of reality in all its solar glory, that we buy into the fictions of decency and morality and uphold it with so paradoxical a violence and tyranny, that is indeed the true shame.

Not a frivolous matter!

The question, are we wolves, sheep, or merely half-awake children was not posted as a frivolous matter.

If we wish to improve our social structure we must know what humans are at a very basic level. The sciences of psychology, sociology, and psychiatry have determined that we have a neutral nature. We are not inherently selfish, evil, and self-destructive SOBs as we sometimes appear to be.

We are merely half-awake children and thus we can fairly easily turn around this lousy social structure we have invented if we can awaken the masses. I have decided that it is my duty as your Dutch uncle to awaken these young slumbering giants; and thus my posts. I have decided that I must ride through the towns and cities crying “awaken young giants, there is much learning to be done, go quickly to your nearest library and begin, the hour is very late”.

Time is late because we have constructed hi-tech toys that can easily destroy us. We cannot continue, foolishly playing with matches, while sitting in a pool of gasoline.

Some have identified the generation that fought WWII as the greatest generation; for good reason. That generation had to kill and die in battle to save civilization; they did it with courage and dignity. Does this generation, the one just coming of age, have the courage and dignity to save civilization from self-destruction? This generation need not kill and die; this generation needs only to develop an intellectual life. Perhaps our society has generated young citizens who find it easier to kill and die than to learn and lead.

that only works when you convince johnny jihad to stop…

singing peace songs ain’t gonna cut it.

negoiations ain’t gonna cut it.

dipping all american munitions in lard before killing jihadists with them might stop it…

-Imp

What the hell Coberst? Are you just copying and pasting your own essays over and over?