Are you the camel, the lion, or the child?

Are you the camel, the lion, or the child?

  • I am the camel: My freedom is suppressed by belief.
  • I am the lion: I stand to fight against my suppressor!
  • I am the child: I am reborn free from past suppression!
0 voters

03.17.06.1260
There is a personal favorite part of Nietzsche’s Thus Spoke Zarathustra, in the beginning particularly, where he speaks of the Three Metamorphoses: within this a great revelation of the transition of the spirit from the entrapment of religious doctrine, to the anarchismal escape and rebellion of that doctrine, and finally a revaluation of the values that doctrine represented.

My question to you, the reader, is: Are you the camel, the lion, or the child?
To put it in simpler terms: What is the current state of your spiritual development?

Is this like a multiple choice question, true or false, or an Essy?

Kropotkin

I’ve always considered myself more the proverbial elephant. The lion did not come close.

I could always add myself to this discourse if the bumbling ass were properly represented. Alas, Nietzche my brother you are not.

Why hast thou cast me aside as so many sheaves of grain, feathered upon the wind, to drift for eternity in the darkness of abysmal confusion, forever abstaining the glory of rebellious liberation???

what if you’re not any of them?

i’m more like… the ninja. i know what i believe, what i stand for, and i am willing to fight for it. i am supressed by some, but i am the supressor of some. i understand that things are generally a balance like this, and also i like to sneak around and climb things.

I’m a housecat

I’m a languid sloth.

neitzche (sorry my spelling sucks) is absolutely correct in his analysis.

you will always begin as the camel. your worldview is going to be hindered by what you ‘believe’ at first.

as you grow you begin to understand more about the world…your worldview changes and you begin…to rebel…against what you have originally believed, whether you do it outwardly or on the inside…this is the path of a philosopher. at this point you are the lion…

then eventually…one day. you get it. you know what you are and what your beliefs are and you can use them to make your life the best it can be. throw away all of your doubts and problems and live freely. free to exist…the child.

i answered this poll completely honestly and put thought towards it. i know that i will one day become the child…but now im still a lion.

-i love neitzche.

I’m a lion. Roaring my truth.

A

:wink: Variety and versatility = anti-singularity, freedom, width.
It’s good to be a little bit of everything, all depending on the state and environment at the time.

I believe that beliefs change with tidal waves of emotions we have. Even the most emotionaly suppressed person changes the way they think due to emotional waves. I would say being all three at once is a very distinct possibility for most of us. We all behave differently to some degree or another depending upon the personalities around us. so do our beliefs and the way we aproach them.

Example; I will behave and act one way around my parents even though my core personality still shows through but, around peers and friends another change in my behavior comes forward and still my core shows through. We all have those changes. I will adjust my beliefs to comfort my parents and yet still remain true to myself. I do the same with others.
Social changes are inevitable for us. so to are our beliefs subject to change in a social setting. I have yet to meet anyone that does not change even if it is barely noticable it still is change.
I think that it might be a form of self preservation. If you admire say, Nietzche, if by odd chance you were put in his presence, you would change during the meeting and afterwards your beliefs would change again. I may not be explaining this too well, one of you ought to be able to gleen what I mean and clear it up.
As far as I know I harbor all three within me and they pop up as needed.

Although after studying this armadillo that lives on our property. I kind of like that personality best. It may have poor eyesight but, it senses everything around it, even ground vibrations out of the normal type. It shows no fear but, it does protect itself very well by balling up or running incredibly fast. It even plays with our cats and has figured out that our dogs can’t get at it. Pretty smart. It is quite dogged in its pursuit of food. So basically it is stubborn, capable of learning, and very aware of its surroundings. This is one armadillo that won’t be roadkill. Long live Armi.

if by Lion,does this count?

I’m the logic behind the metaphor, forever outside, forever inside.


Now, to Nietzsche,

To rebel, to be his lion, is to never be free – it is to always be subject to that to which one rebels against – it is to always be determined by that to which one reacts against. So, no, I am not Nietzsche’s lion. Nor am I his camel or his child; nor will I ever define my self, through his logic.

Spiritually, you ask us, who are we? You ask this of us, hoping to find an answer, to who it is you are. And I answer, that you shall not find your answer from us or from Nietzsche.

What is the motivation behind your question? Is it not motivated by the desire to become Nietzsche’s metaphorical child? You cannot become the child, my friend, until you reject the child. And even then, you are still a camel. But reject the camel, and you are his lion. Reject the lion, reject the metaphor, and you are tum’s product. And when you reject all that I have said, all that you have read, you won’t ever have to worry about being anything at all, for you’ll know what you are – but the moment you try and express it, the moment you attempt to crystallize the pattern, poof. And then, and only then, will you look around, up, down, inside, outside, and suddenly, begin to laugh. Like a child.

I know I have the best of time and space, and was never
measured and never will be measured.

I tramp a perpetual journey (come listen all!)
My signs are a rain-proof coat, good shoes, and a staff cut
from the woods,
No friend of mine takes his ease in my chair,
I have no chair, no church, no philosophy,
I lead no man to a dinner-table, library, exchange,
But each man and each woman of you I lead upon a knoll,
My left hand hooking you round the waist,
My right hand pointing to landscapes of continents and the
public road.

Not I, not any one else can travel that road for you,
You must travel it for yourself.

It is not far, it is within reach,
Perhaps you have been on it since you were born and did not
know,
Perhaps it is everywhere on water and on land.

Shoulder your duds, dear son, and I will mine, and let us
hasten forth,
Wonderful cities and free nations we shall fetch as we go.

If you tire, give me both burdens, and rest the chuff of your
hand on my hip,
And in due time you shall repay the same service to me,
For after we start we never lie by again.

This day before dawn I ascended a hill and look’d at the
crowded heaven,
And I said to my spirit, When we become the enfolders of
those orbs, and the pleasure and knowledge of everything
in them, shall we be fill’d and satisfied then?

And my spirit said, No, we but level that lift to pass and con-
tinue beyond.

You are also asking me questions and I hear you,
I answer that I cannot answer, you must find out for yourself.

Sit a while, dear son,
Here are biscuits to eat and here is milk to drink,
But as soon as you sleep and renew yourself in sweet clothes,
I kiss you with a good-bye kiss and open the gate for
your egress hence.

Long enough have you dream’d contemptible dreams,
Now I wash the gum from your eyes,
You must habit yourself to the dazzle of the light and of
every moment of your life.
Long have you timidly waded holding a plank by the shore,
Now I will you to be a bold swimmer,
To jump off in the midst of the sea, rise again, nod to me,
shout, and laughingly dash with your hair.

-Walt Whitman

Nietzsche is biscuits and milk. Have your share, eat slowly, enjoy the smells, the rich flavors, and then, laughingly dash forward with the vitality he fuels. Then, go create your own feast. Better still, create a banquet.

03.20.06.1265
In all honesty, I did not believe this topic would recieve this much of a response—it is but a fancy whim of plesantry, a dash of fun with a man whose ideas, in all sincerity, are nothing more than ideas which bask in bountiful interpretation!

In all seriousness, you are correct—for to define oneself is to quote one’s own logic. Nietzsche’s writings are indeed the definition of Nietzsche—it was he who suffered as the camel, and upon his discovery of Schopenhauer became the lion, but yet, we could argue that his becoming of the child was wishful thinking: a prediction of his own future! However, as he never truly finished what he started—that he only had his remaining years to begin his revaluation (a now incomplete Will To Power)—an anarchistic revolution of the spirit never fully took place! He left this earth as his lion—never to be his child which he envisioned to become. To this, I do not presume you to seriously catagorize yourself within his schema, but only to take his idea and expand upon it with your own.

Perhaps I could have better implied the idea to have fun with this topic had I placed it in the Mundane Babble forum—but then, I also wanted some level of seriousness placed upon this. What seriousness do I speak of, you ask? Not to seek the answer from you, or others, or even Nietzsche himself—but to provide a floor to which the ideas may be laid out for all to see. When I ask where you are spiritually, I ask for your ideas and interpretations thereof—to present your own archetypes to YOUR life, not Nietzsche’s. I regret not explaining this before, but then again, I did not expect anyone to go as far as you have with it. I now see the error and will strive to fully explain my aims next time.

To the former, the answer has been provided. To the latter, I laugh in response—as a child, but not Nietzsche’s, and certainly not as your product.

I already have; haven’t you?
Behold, those who have accomplished what I set out for them to do!

Yesturday i was the camel
Today i am the child
Tomorrow i will become the lion
My final form shall be the cube

I don’t believe The Child is something that one can arrive at. The child serves the same pourpose as the carrot in front of the donkey that drives him to move forwards.
<=Lion.

I’m a penguine, a little black, a little white, and a certainly can’t fly.

am i the only one who can admit to being a camel?

I have mentioned myself as the camel , example and proof:

of course by cube i was refering to the lyseract wich is at this time proccessing information and repeating the proccess for it’s energy supply.