This seems like a popular idea. I’ll put it to the various people concerned and I imagine that we’ll either have a ‘no’ decision or a new forum within a week.
this site is about philosophy, and since “creative writing” exists.,I think it would fit to have a forum about “visual art discussion” etc especially since it seems like people are interested in it. It seems like it already fits in to “rant house” but I am interested in the idea. If someone can think of a good way to make it fit in to the rest of the website, I am for sure interested.
Excellent.
I concur, exactly … which is harrowing and worrisome beyond viable belief or comprehension … I may have to commit Sepukku now.
Art is actually a good way of suggesting the difference between the intents of boards
This is true since in this day and age people have forgotten what art is. The idea that art can serve the same objective purpose for emotions that a text book on physics can serve for the intellect seems absurd but is common knowledge for those that have studied real art. But art is now synonymous with expression. It is expression with the intent to be art.
Think how far you’d get if you defined gold as fools gold with the intent to be gold? Yet the concept of art has been so degenerated that it is defined as expression with the intent to be art. Discussing art from the deeper perspective would never fly on the board you propose.
It requires a board uplifting with participants willing to become open to the great ideas as opposed to saying this or that sucks due to personal taste. But it is not important enough in this day and age so art will be graded on the subjective sucko meter
Nick,
This day and age has forgotten many things, but I would say that forgetting what art is a bit of a stretch. It’s impossible for us to forget what art is because it simply exists as a byproduct.
It is true that modern art has evolved much from the contemporary techniques and theories, but what hasn’t? What you see as the intent to be art, or in other words, ‘fake art’, maybe be true in many cases…but these cases existed back in whatever period you deemed to be the pinnacle of quality.
If a peice invokes an emotion, if (as Schopenhauer would say) it allows you to escape subjugation to the will, then it is art. It is the religion of the psychological masses. In some instances you simply cannot escape it’s effects and this continues to this day, through all sorts of mediums.
Not everyone operates on the same aesthetical frequency, indeed some are simply at opposite ends of the spectrum - but that’s what this forum will be for, to discuss this type of stuff.
It’s progressive, it’s desperately needed. Aesthetics will capture a lot of attention.
O_G
This really is off topic for this thread but perhaps we could discuss these things at some point. It is important to me both on my path which takes art seriously and as part of my heredity.
But just to make some suggestions. The highest Art as I’ve come to value it is not a by product but the result of conscious intent to communicate something specific emotionally. This is different than the random subjective emotions unconscious expression produces. This level of art is mathematical in that it carries an inner logic that inspires a precise complimentary emotion. It gives a person the intended emotional experience that provides inner direction (knowlede) for their inner search.
Also art hasn’t evolved but instead has devolved. The less it has become a tool of consciousness the more it has become a tool of imagination and its expression. But since imagination is the result of the absence of consciousness, or the devolution of our quality of consciousness, the highest art has devolved as you say into a byproduct.
When so much of our self esteem is caught up in this byproduct, and ridicule and short quips have become so fashionable. How could such ideas ever stay on topic that suggests art to be indicitive of something greater than our opinions. It requires intent and a respectful attitude and as it has been shown, is not generally wanted. It needs an environment (board) of people that value mutual cooperation to develop such ideas rather than mock them into the ground.
It is off-topic, but perhaps this will give people some sort of indication of the types of things which can be discussed. In any case… we can end it after this if you want.
This is true, and I should have been more precise before, but what I meant to be understood before is that the byproduct -is- this conscious intent to communicate something specific. Be it, as you said, emotionally or perhaps politically in some cases.
Once again, I agree. But as I said before, at any point during our temporal tract as a species, there will be those that excel and those that do not, but the art is always there - a byproduct like I said, and for Schopenhaur, a critical element to the workings of the universe itself.
I would say for you to make a quantitive, objective claim in this sense is a bit temporal-centric. With only the past to compare the present to, it seems there will always be those that take sides, but I urge you not to.
Keep in mind though, that while I appreciate the precise nature of artists such as Beethovan, Wagner, Divinci, Shakespeare etc, they exist within a hulking historical machine that must borrow from it’s foundation to move forwards, sort of like a jenga. So while these harmonies are admired, they are not inherently presupposed to a static conceptualization to maintain their worth.
Hi O_G
You seem to be trying and I appreciate that. But please remember that when I read that separate mutual cooperative efforts towards quality, because it is generally unwanted, is not right for the forum, then the writing is on the wall. As with water sinking to its own levels, so it will be with ideas. Art taken lightly will be reduced to a negative shell of itself. I would be more than happy to be wrong but with the trends as they are, I cannot see how. Perhaps the powers that be are right and this isn’t the forum for it.
One thing as far as music. I believe that those like Mozart and Beethoven served as unconscious mediums where the music already in existence moved through them and out into the external world from them.
However, even higher IMO, is when the artist consciously understands the connection between music and emotion at the level to bypass our normal subjective reactions to communicate something objective.
As I understand it, it is very little known in the West but in the East, it occurs in music we find dull and monotonous. It seems this way because the art is expressed in quarter tones we are not sensitive to.
The Western ear has been dulled to such an extent many cannot differentiate semi tones much less quarter tones. But for the musician with the skill to play their instrument in quarter tones and knowing and having experienced this ancient knowledge of the objective relationships between vibration and emotion, a person can experience a higher quality of emotion than the norm which temporarily clarifies the difference between what we normally are and our possibilities. We need this “art” to help us provide this direction we cannot do ourselves from continually becoming lost. In this way it is a crutch but a necessary one…
This is what has happened. The loss of the need, the hunger, felt as the love of wisdom which has inspired philosophy seems to be gone in public. I see its accepted absence as a slow collective dying inside covered over and made tolerable by fascination and negativity. This is why video games are so popular. It covers the hunger. A person has to decide if they want to go down with the ship of philosophy or not.
why, in all of my years here at ilp (all of those almost 2 years), i’ve never seen such a philosophical discussion pop up in such an odd place as the help & suggestions forum.
Yeah well… I’m fucking crazy like that.
your avatar would suggest as much
lol, Levitch?
Nah… he’s just cranked out on speed and the ongoing wow, that’s happening… right now.
i’m reminded of robot chicken…
did you just get off the g-force simulator?
NO! i just shot smack into BOTH OF MY EYEBALLS!! WHOOOOOOOOO!