As I explained before, I think poverty is the main underlying cause of violence, as Xunzian has convincingly argued, and I think the statistics speak for themselves; however, the shape that violence takes is directly influenced by religion.
I’m not saying religion has the monopoly on violence, as this is obviously false. But it is one belief system that can incite violence. So is nationalism. So are social causes. Not every religion incites violence, either. Harris mentions Jainism as an example. The more fanatical Jains become in their belief system, inevitably the less violent they will become.
Anything that humans do is, inevitably, human nature, but let’s talk specifics. What specifically about human nature is the problem? It’s obviously not compassion, love, or kindness.
Out of curiosity, though, if everything that emanates from human nature is marked by “sin,” won’t the prescription that will cure the problem also bear this mark? What is your cure? Bear in mind, eradicating religion isn’t mine.
I, having unfortunately been tricked into going to war a couple times in my life (Granted one immediately followed the other.) I’ve had people try to kill me… now… oddly enough…
I’ve a copy, sitting on the shelf here in my room of the following:
The Mahabharata
The Quran
The Talmud
A few various bibles in a few various languages.
The Dogon
The four Noble Truths hang on my wall.
None of these have yet to try to harm me, as far as I can tell.
Therefore, I am more afraid of people than religion, as generally religion doesn’t inherently … well do much of anything, if these books are any sign.
People ascribe to religions because their minds are broken (incidently the same can be said about a few sciences), and if they attempt to state what they -truly- believe in they are ridiculed by society at large (Again in the case of science see String Theory or Copernicus). This breeds a dull ignorance in your people as they are offered textbooks and textbook religions, and fall into place like sheep… no one wishes to be outcasted for being a ‘nutter.’ Well, except mabye me.
I’m just curious as to how you’ve reached the conclusion that religion doesn’t inherently “do anything.”
I realize inanimate objects are unable to harm you, but I hardly find this to be convincing evidence of the point you’re trying to make.
Stating you are afraid of people as opposed to religion to me equates to saying you’re afraid of people as opposed to neo-nazis, as if a person and their beliefs are somehow separate and have no relation to one another.
No, a person and their beliefs are not seperate… however I would like you to go to Nagasaki or Hiroshima (if you can find them) and ask them what they think about Scientists. No religious ideology was required to erradicate them like mice, and proceed to irradiate them for the next 20-50 years. In our own country we put the Japanese into Consentration camps in 1942… my oh my. Again, no religious ideology.
My point isn’t that a Religious person can’t kill you, its that whether or not a person has a compunction to ‘do evil’ then it has nothing to do with their beliefs. They will respond to their brain chemistry, psychology, and personal neurosis whether they were religious or not.
So just to make sure I’m clear on your position…because other atrocities have been committed that didn’t involve religion, religious belief cannot be the cause of different atrocities? I’m not sure I follow.
Correct. Attrocities can be commited in the name of… well anything, when it comes down to it. Simply because people have used their religion as an excuse to commit the most attrocities, does not mean that the religion itself is to blame. The following religions are, by text and doctrine (read them before arguing), messages of peace, love and harmony:
Islam
Judaism
Christianity
Buddhism
Hinduism
Taoism
The Dogon
Egyptian Esoteric Teachings
Celtic secular works
‘New Age Religions’ (which is funny since most are older than the rest)
Hopi Indians
Most Native American Tribes
The Mayans (Can never remember the name of that)
How can one look at the word peace, grab a sword, and be justifiable in blaming that word because he guts someone?
The word Love appears: 610 times.
The word Peace appears: 429 times.
The word Fear appears: 396 times.
The word Joy appears: 242 times.
The word Slay appears: 118 times.
The word Slaughter appears: 56 times. (this includes references to cattle and sacrifices)
The word Hate appears: 87 times.
The word Wisdom appears: 234 times.
The word Kill appears: 118 times.
Yes, I’d say on weight it is a message of peace. The Quran is much the same.
