Nickelodeon started this series two years ago, and all I can say (even if the series is four or five episodes shy to its climax) is it is one of the BEST western cartoon series I watched.
The story is very great, so is the character development, the martial arts, the comedy and the romance. The growth of the characters are tackled as something like a road trip and it features a world of Avatar that is complex as it is enticing. I also love the concept of “bending” the four elements in the series, as it is the first time I’ve seen such concept. The series also develop a complex universe, comparable to those of Gaiman and Tolkien.
The series is coming to a close, and I enjoyed every episode of it and I will miss the universe it had potrayed. Questions are answered, anti-heroes realize their humanity, heroes realize their purpose and fights will be Hong Kong style action only in cartoons.
well for starters the fire nation is a bunch of dragon suck ups and sun worshipers, the air benders represent all eastern philosophies in the sense of physical enlightenment (chakras and what not), the water temple seems very paganistic in my opinion, very mother nature like. Not to mention that these water benders can also bend blood (very symbolic in terms of righteousness). And lastly there’s the earth benders… I haven’t figured them out yet…
They almost seem like atheists… normal people…
One would think that the normal people in this case would be Christianity fighting against the dark side of the fire nation, but instead i can only see the fire nation as representing Christianity itself, making the earth benders the Atheists in function. The Air temple stands aside, ancient, representing the view westerners have of Eastern religion. The water temple represents the old ways of the west itself, paganism, not wholly powerful, yet existent.
That is not anti-Christian Wonderer, anything Eastern is not really anti-Christian. That is just Western bigotry getting into you.
The Avatar universe is non-Christian but not really anti-Christian. For crying out loud there is not even a reference to Christ in that universe or anything that is against Christian virtues.
Certain virtues that are potrayed in the series are also very welcome by Christianity. Love, hope, respect, redemption (Zuko!),perseverance, duty, self-sacrifice, etc and etc.
They believe in the world spirit. Last time I check atheists don’t subscribe to a world spirit.
Man, you ought to get some rest.
Well okay, but do remember Far Eastern philosophies is not characterized as atheistic or as a religion in the western sense of the word.
Im sure alot of my generalisations about things like this would seem completely strange to you. That being said, it is important to understand it from a westerd point of view, as i believe that’s where the creator is from.
you honestly don’t see the fire nation as being christian? you even mentioned Zuko?
Westerners really do view Christianity in a very mixed sense. Exactly like the mixed sense they would view sun worshipping.
The fire nation is trying to unite the world because they want to share their better way of life.
Does that ring any bells?
I feel that you have a very positive view of chrisitianity. that is one not often shared.
It’s about the dark underside of religion. particularily Christianity in america.
The more i talk about it the more i am sure that the fire nation is symbolic of the war between christianity and non christianity, hwhere the fire nation is obviously the former.
I would say it is the United States of America and not Christianity per se, haha. Do remember that human history is not driven alone by spiritual ideals, actually the perversion of spiritual/political/philosophical ideals do lead to the ugliest moments in our history. Take note of that.
Shockingly slow at its buffering.
Sorry I didn’t watch it.
Yeah I’m hearing weird stuff on the churches over there. Though Wonderer do distinguish the “Christian” with “Christianity”.
Maybe because you’re seeing it as such. Which is okay, except for the fact that Dan Brown also saw Mary Magdalene on Da Vinci’s work. Or the fact that I think I see Shiva dancing on the stain at a McDonald’s ceiling.
But as I said take a break Wonderer, just enjoy the show, haha. You see in literature I am more on Gaiman’s perspective and not on Lewis, I hate analogical works that is not explicitly analogical I just hate being betrayed. And if Avatar is such, well it is an interesting premise and all but as far as I know (as far as what the writers explicity wish to tell) it is a story that is very very substantial.
I’m kind of worried that you might be turned off by my perspective
The war in America between christianity and non-christianity isn’t a war of “christians”. When i referr to the fire nation as “christianity” it is in refrence to the Americanised churches which are currently leading the war (if you had watched the video, you would have seen just that. )
In fact the message of the entire show is utterly unambiguous.
This is a quote from memory made by the fire nation king. It was in response to the question “why are we at war”.
“people around the world have a hard life, and we in the fire nation llife a very successful life. We are at war so we can share our life with the rest of the world.”
This is utterly and entirely a religious cliche (especially regarding Christianity) and frankly reminds me of Hitler.
Well, a word of advice, if I wish to interpret a particular piece I go along with these self-imposed guideline.
Do not read a story outside its respective universe.
Do not place messages not explicitly stated by the author.
If a particular subject intersect with our universe, just focus on the intersection, and don’t wander and confuse one “reality” of a universe with another.
A work of fiction that is explicitly a work of fiction is just a fiction.
The human drama, and not the human institutions, is the constant element in all stories.
So okay, you interpret the Avatar as a criticism on the American Christian Churches. Maybe so. But I won’t be in a hurry to attribute it as an intention of the authors as there is no documentation to make us believe they are criticizing any institution.
So again my Dan Brown example of “seeing” something in another person’s work. This I believe you are committing.
Now maybe your observation hold ground and the authors wish not to tell their messages, but it is pathetic if it is so, as it is a great disservice to their work and to the (secret) message they wish to tell. But that is beside the point, I am really worried that you are kind of robbing yourself of a good experience by seeing the series as some big Trojan Horse and you are a Greek.
This is sad, how you distract yourself with symbolism (which I think is accidental or non-existent or not really meant to be such). It is like reading The Lord of the Rings and seeing it as a book about the World Wars and looking who is Hitler and who is Churchhill or watching Y Tu Mama Tambien and seeing it as a teen movie or worse, porn.
And…
Christianity does not exclusively hold that kind of bigotry. Nor does the American people and government. Everyone who have enough unchecked power always fall to the reasoning of Sozen (the Fire King) as history will attest to people like Bonaparte, Hitler, Stalin, Bush. Do remember the saying: “Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
But I think you already made this distinction somewhere.
Lastly…
Could we shift to a lighter analysis of the story. Pleaaassseeee.
Well, whew, the four elements in the Avatar Universe is not society of the Western world but talks more on balance within and without. The moments of corruption in the fire nation are only tackled as a retrospect and not as an ongoing phenomena, the gist of the whole of the story is the maturity of the heroes (Aang, Zuko, Katara, Sokka and Toph) and not the corruption of the world per se.
If the writers intend it to talk on how a corrupted fire nation corrupts the world, and thus alluding to a corrupted Christianity in America, it should not focus on children but on armies and generals, on kings and empires.
But I think that is not the conflict of the story. The conflict is not tackled in a global scale, the war is just a backdrop. The conflict is personal, the struggle of Zuko and Aang on their pasts to give balance to the future.
I do think it does not exclusively tackle the current global drama, but tackle on our eternal human drama on redemption and how ambitions corrupts. I still think you are doing the Dan Brown fallacy since you interpret more into a work than what the authors explicitly tell.
Firstly i would like to say that the point of a story (in my opinion) is to convey a message without being explicit.
Being an aspiring writer myself, i know that it’s foolish to write a story without knowing what it is you wanted to say with the story.
“what is the point of the story?”
Yes, i agree with you in that the point of the story is to convey the utility of trust, teamwork, forgiveness, and a whole bunch of other virtues.
The authors accomplish this by telling the groups personal stories…
But we must note here that this is not how every story works, nor is it all there is to a story.
The backdrop. I think that the backdrop is very significant.
The author wanted to convey a message through the struggle of the main characters, we know this.
Now think to yourself, “what struggle could the writers relate to?”.
War. Yes war. But not just any war. It is a war of ideals versus spirituality.
The fire nation leaders believe that it is the best nation in the world, and they set out to create a global united empire. This is much like the reasoning of Hitler and it is also like the ideals of Christianity (remember I’m not talking about all Christianity).
The avatar represents an eastern Deity (particularly Hindu). Because of this i would like to submit that it is the prerogative of the writers that eastern spirituality is the mecca of the show.
This is confirmed with the appearance of the Guru, and his blatant Hindu philosophies.
The Guru represents peaceful and ultimate philosophy because this guru taught Ang how to control the avatar state (which is implied is ultimate)
So the ultimate philosophy in the show is a peaceful and Hindu one.
Here’s where it gets interesting.
The fire nation is actually filled with references from the Tang dynasty in terms of look
The tang dynasty originally embraced 2 religions. Buddhism and Daoism, but there’s something interesting about it.
There was an entanglement of politics and religion. Initially both religions were equally embraced but Daoism became dominant.
The military leaders of the Tang dynasty would have monks from both religions preform rituals for things ranging from victories to drought, but as religion faded the government was seizing control.
The tang dynasty was essentially an aristocratic nation where there were few rich, millions of commoners, and a big army. Much like the image we see on avatar.
So you could in fact make the argument that Christianity isn’t even up for discussion in the sense that what i have layed out can explain the fire nation completely, but i would like to turn your attention to the justification from the fire nation which was provided by the writers.
The writers see the fire nation as a corrupt entity which tries to permeate its way of life through force
“we have the truth”
In the video i suggested you watch a question is asked of one of the church members in response to her comment that she would like to see children laying down their lives for Christianity in the same way they do for Islam. Her response was “excuse me, we have the truth…”
From a western perspective the fire nation represents oppression. I would have no second thought about that except for the fact that the show is highly spiritual in nature. As has been established, the ultimate form of spiritualism in the view of Avatar is a Hindu one.
So i ask myself, is this a case of government versus religion? The fire sages in the Avatar represent a noble past, a spiritual past.
This leads me to believe that the fire nation represents corrupted religion. Religion versus religion in terms of fire nation versus the Avatar, and then the water and earth nations then fall into a superfluous category.
From a western perspective the fire nation clearly represents some form of government controlled corrupt religion. At face value and even through reference of the Tang dynasty.
From a western perspective, corrupt government controlled religion represents but one thing; Christianity.
Christianity can be seen as the snake to the Avatars mongoose. Not that it is a direct swipe at Christianity itself, it is rather a swipe at government controlled religion; religion gone wrong.
For many westerners the struggle with Christianity is our greatest battle. It defines many of our lives.
You can’t get more epic than that. I can personally relate to the struggle against the fire nation. Against it’s age old fallacious logic which permeates this earth
“might makes right”
Note: After doing extensive reading in order to make this post, i have concluded that the lack of western references (especially in respect to Christianity) was intentional because Christians would not tolerate it if it was anti Christian.
Avatar is the story of the triumph of normal and relate able people against a common enemy.
That common enemy just happens to be corrupted religious governments, and depending on where you live, the corrupted government church down the street from you simply bears a different name.
I bet you see Muslim ideals as being corrupted.
In Canada devout Muslims command respect, and their religion is actually seen as sensible and in some cases attractive (we have a show called little mosque on the prairie).
Perhaps you were right in the sense that Avatar does not directly swipe at Christianity, but it does indeed swipe at it in the sense that Christianity is definitely on the podium of corrupt religions, and that is the common enemy unambiguously portrayed in the show.
lol well I mean, he isn’t a blockbuster actor or bankable star like tom cruise or will smith but I guess he does okay. I’ve never asked him about his income. I’m going to his house next weekend for some party with all us drama kids in high school, so i’ll ask him then
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*note the obilisk