BDSM as a necessary complement to the emancipation of women.

When, some years ago, the ILP user known as MagnetMan claimed that women make better rulers than men, I partially agreed with him. I suggested that that applied in times of peace or stability; in times of war or crisis, however, men make better rulers. This corresponds to the exoteric order of rank found in Hindu society:

[size=95]From the exoteric socio-religious point of view, Vishnu is superior to Bhairava, who is no more than the terrible policeman god protecting the boundaries of the socio-religious community and, as door-keeper, the access to its temples from hostile external forces. [Source: Chalier, The Apollonian Vishnu and the Dionysian Bhairava". Note that, in Harihara, Vishnu occupies the same place respective to Shiva as Parvati does in Ardhanarishvara.][/size]
According to this article, that is because:

[size=95]The terrifying divinity of transgression can never become the object of public cult as such, and the only means for him to receive communal worship is by transforming himself into the equally terrifying protector-god for a more central pacific and benign divinity. [Source: ibid.][/size]
I however contend that this, too, only applies in times of peace or stability. This contention is actually supported by another article by the same writer(s):

[size=95]Vishnu embod[ies] the vector uniting the profane [i]kshatriya /i with the pure pole of Brahmâ to generate the religious image of the king as the protector and even pivot of the socio-religious order (dharma), and Rudra incarnat[es] the vector linking him with the transgressive pole of Brahmâ to generate the equally religious image of the king as the savage destroyer in the impurity of the hunt and the violence of battle. [Source: Chalier, “Mitra-Varuna and the niravasita-Bhairava”.][/size]
The police is the intrasocial counterpart of the military, which is intersocial. Now whereas in times of peace or stability, it suffices to regard the police as an indispensable servant (“To Protect and Serve”), in times of war or crisis, society’s survival requires that everything be openly subordinated to the military:

[size=95]On Carthage’s horizon, the joys of love and peace were rare luxuries; the abiding reality was war, the terrifying threat of extinction by her enemies. During those threats, “filled as they now were with hatred, they turned frankly towards Homicidal Moloch and all forsook Tanith.” “Moloch was in possession of Carthage.” During one of Carthage’s perpetual military crises when “the tyranny of the male principle” reigned supreme, even Tanith’s chief eunuch priest abandons her for Moloch. [Source: Neumann, “Liberalism’s Moloch”, quoting from Flaubert’s Salammbo.][/size]
Now it cannot be overemphasised that this subordination occurs ultimately for the sake of Tanith, “the female principle”:

[size=95]Moloch exists to protect the realm of Tanith. In endangered cities such as Carthage, this protection was a perpetual need. The Carthaginian woman was responsible for the domestic hearth while her men fought to preserve its sacred flame. […] The Carthaginian woman did not enjoy equality of rights although—or because—she was at the heart of Carthaginian life. She was the center of the home for which her men fought their perpetual wars. [Source: ibid.][/size]
But liberalism’s Moloch—as opposed to a non-cosmopolitan Moloch such as Carthage’s or Sparta’s (Ares)—“is satisfied with nothing less than that realm’s extirpation, the obliteration of its sacredness.” (ibid.) Note that Yahweh is actually Israel’s war god, i.e., its Moloch, who under Christianity became the cosmopolitan Moloch. The step from Christianity to Humanism is simply the next step in the liberalisation process that began with early Christianity but whose seed was already sown by Israel’s refusal to let go of Yahweh after its complete military defeat which led to the Babylonian Captivity (see my “Nietzsche Contra Wilders”).

Because of that liberalisation process, the Western woman now enjoys equality of rights—most notably the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I contend, however, that her liberty ultimately thwarts her pursuit of happiness. Insofar as she still has a woman’s instinct, she at the very least feels that her liberty must be compensated for by some kind of—bondage… She feels she deserves to be punished. And indeed, in The Laws of Manu (VII.25), Punishment is described as stalking about with a black hue and red eyes. This suffices to warrant an identification with Bhairava.

[size=95][F]rom the esoteric standpoint of transgressive sacrality, Vishnu himself recognizes Bhairava as the supreme divinity. [Source: Chalier, “The Apollonian Vishnu and the Dionysian Bhairava”.][/size]
This is like saying that the Western woman wants to submit, in private, to a real, i.e., a dominant, man, who is to discipline her for her public libertinism. And indeed, it’s no coincidence that Fifty Shades of Grey is so popular!

Is there a reason that Hinduism automatically wins an appeal to authority other than being multiculturally exotic?

Actually, I think there’s a Jewish element at stake here consider Israeli-Indian foreign policy cooperation and the influence of Jewish feminism:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_feminism

jew-feminist-resources.com/
jwa.org/feminism/

What a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

There’s no need to be sarcastic.

I don’t think the OP is wrong. I’m just wondering why Hinduism gets a pass.

Hinduism is the only polytheistic religion among the world religions today. But indeed, insofar as Yahweh is still Israel’s war god and there’s still a Hebrew goddess, Judaism too may support my thesis: hence my mention of Yahweh in my original post.

Most hindus consider themselves to be Monotheistic actually, and it’s not the only Polytheistic religion in the cases where Hindues still consider themselves Polytheistic within India- as Hinduism isn’t any particular religion, but a amalgamation of religions pretending to Vedic origins- sects within Hinduism can be quite large, but those sects, coincidentally, tend to be monotheistic. There are wide arrays of smaller, anti-vedanta groups within India that’s always been at odds with the Vedic cast system- but the Nietzscheans on this site who look to India aren’t aware that there is a essential antagonistic conflict between them.

Honestly, why not say Tibet is a Pagan state? Or the Japanese Shinto traditions? The Nietzscheans in Japan, after all, are a major faction of the philosophical schools there, and the issues of poverty and backwardness relative to Dutch Civilization is rather small, and they have a tradition of a caste system. In Tibet, they developed themselves from their Greek-Alexandrian roots to becoming the equal in philosophy to what developed in the west… given we both evolved out of similar Alexandrian roots of philosophical orientation, just went in different directions of emphasis.

He’s just stuck on India because Nietzsche mentions India a few times, despite other societies being the better and more obvious choice. He doesn’t comprehend that india he imagines and reads about isn’t as nearly the utopia he dreams it to be. Many intellectuals in India are sympathetic to Nietzsche, thinking we got him wrong, and that he’s really just a nice guy. They had a small renaissance around his superman ideals during the early twentieth century, but are now largely embarrassed by it, thinking everyone looks down on them for it as backwards. Truth is, most aren’t even aware of it- I wasn’t even aware of it until I started meeting up with cultural integration groups from India going over the philosophy of Aurobindo… I had heard of his name before, but never looked into it… and then, like in the movie Anchorman ‘Whammie’. I found the nest, and apparently most people intellectuals from India are shy about him, seeing him as childish adaptation of western concepts. They ‘like him for themselves’ but keep it in the closet. I personally don’t see the attraction to a philosopher your embarrassed to talk about.

Also- this thread in general just goes to show how the Nietzscheans are dodging the Libertine name of de Sade but are essentially try to always mimic him- and no where nearly as well. It’s a deeply perverted philosophy at it’s core. Yeah, we’re all a little perverted in our own way, but they try to make perversion the leading aspect of their lives. I was actually banned for a while in calling Cezar in a PM about this.

Someone ask about the Goreans later on down the road in a new thread.

I am not saying a consenting couple shouldn’t be allowed to tie one another up, or whip, mount a saddle on the back of their soul mate for life, ridding them around like a horse, making their spouse eat hay…or whatever. So be it- just don’t make it a expectation for structuring civilization around it, keep your Sadism to the office cubical where it belongs on a society wide level, and leave the whips at home.

Also- your now at the point Sauwelios that most people can’t grasp what the hell your trying to say, as it’s held in second hand illusionary references. You have to be a Nietzscheologist to grasp what half of what you just muttered means, and it means very little once comprehended. I had to go over aspects of that three times, and that’s despite being used to hearing you talk in cryptic veil, and having a better background in the ancient world and eastern religions than you.

Yahweh wasn’t a ‘wargod’, he was a universal god beyond the scopes of attributes. If he was a wargod, then the Garden of Eden story wouldn’t make any sense, nor his centuries of patience with the Sodomites before he finally gave up and choose to ‘flood the world’ in the Armageddon, instead of everyone fighting to the death. Cyrus the Great was made a prophet not for his warring capacities, but for his peaceful aims and returning the jews to Israel and starting the rebuilding of the temple. It’s strongly discouraged within traditional Judiasm to relish war. They were not pacifists, but went out of the way to discourage the warring mentality unnecessary, and at many points lambasting the cult of Yahweh from acting violently on it’s pagan neighbors, perfering preserving the peace.

This is important to realize- as the jewish kingdoms laid no both a north-south as well as a east-west axis of major international trade- most of the trade routes linked up in their territory. They could of easily achieved a monopoly from over-expansion into a monopoly, but didn’t- and in the long term couldn’t. Other states stormed them, repeatedly. Prussia under Fredrick the Great was in a similar position- he turned to war. The Jews didn’t. The mentality of Prussia eventually broke them, as they eventually lost two world wars. The Mentality of the Jews sustained them, and they remained a people despite the lost of everything of seeming worth and importance to them.

It’s important to realize that prior to Jesus, there wasn’t a tantric system your eluding to, and in Jesus’ case, it was moralistic-ethical on a introspective level. You could be resolved of the burden of your nature if you took the steps to do so sincerely internally and externally, and no one would know if you really did it unless you did it yourself. It could happen in a instant, or it could take a lifetime. It’s why we give so much effort in trying to help even the worst of men, even until the last dying breath.

The sexual divisions of understanding Jesus or Yahweh are not unknown, as it’s not exactly a unknown in the ancient world, dividing reality by sexual principles, and there is evidence of cults being on that level, but nothing mainstream. I know of a few systems that try to intergrate masculine and female principles together- usually what coincides with ‘Tiferet’ is feminine, and masculine roughtly Keter’. Binah tends to be female as well, while most anything in the right gets masculine attributes.

I have to say however, in the end it’s largely bullshit. There is indeed a sexual dichotomy in nature, and you can use a basic Vesica Piscis centered around the amygalda- which women process much more efficiently, as a emotive core for feminist dualism over males… but not all women exhibit this trait, and not all men do as well, I myself process emotions much better now than previously- adapting to trauma does open that opportunity for growth.

Your going to start posting weird shit on Hermaphrodites here in the future, aren’t you? And we know what the next stage after that is… doing Taz’s BubbaGoddessWilderness self inflicted castration in trying to liberate oneself from sexuality all together in a state of continuous becoming, one with the feminine in some Nietzschean super realm.

Just like… eat a poptart or something, don’t do this stuff to yourself. This doesn’t lead anywhere good… you’ve seen what this has done to Taz.

Does anyone remember in the Satyricon when they accidentally killed the hermaphrodite God by wheeling his sick ass around too long in exposure for their own silly, demented reasons?

There comes a time when you get too deep into a philosophy’s understanding that your actions become largely meaningless. No one understands what your saying, and your too deep into the mysticism of a understanding only you can grasp that you do destructive, pointless things when viewed from the vantage point of another.

The natural course of this is the unification of the sexes in a super being. How do I know? Because that’s what the ancient world did- what Petronius is poking fun at in his sexual Phallus comedy, and that’s also how it evolved in India. His terminology is starting to resemble that of the Lingam, and we’re going to see him in time advocating dressing like a woman like Arjuna did, while trying to overcome transexuality by overcoming sexuality all together.

It’s a tiresome, stupid path. My brother is a tranny, and there isn’t much philosophy underlining his unshaven motivations. Fuck… this is becoming tiresome.

I’m calling this one, and I’m just completely disappointed. We’re seeing the rise of a New Taz in Sauwelios. He was much more advanced down the road of this reasoning.

Philosophy wants to stay clean, observe and compare - it is not indulgent enough to really be libertine and will not (seek to) demonstrate the type of knowledge that de Sade displayed.

I see three strenuous points in the OP: 1, a very attractive and imaginative one: the connection of the war-Moloch to the cosmopolitan Moloch. I see a connection but rather as two Gods on the same axis - Geburah (Mars) becomes Hod (Mercury), the theatrical trickster God aspect of Wotan, equally violent but less physically so. To him would apply:

" But liberalism’s Moloch—as opposed to a non-cosmopolitan Moloch such as Carthage’s or Sparta’s (Ares)—"is satisfied with nothing less than that realm’s extirpation, the obliteration of its sacredness. "

2: Simplifying the origin to the to the Jewish God. It is never a point of discussion that Socrates had a hand in this, and accepted that the myth of Jesus was perhaps invented on the basis of historical Greeks and Romans.
3: The extrapolation of inequality to bondage and sadomasochism. The woman has always a desire for safety, being treated as more privileged. I think that desire for sexual violence simply is a matter of temperament, and of all ages. The rituals of the Catholic Church show how refined this drive had become, how highly sublimated the ravaging will and desire to be ravaged.

This suggest what I proposed here five years ago is still worth considering - that the proper God of violence (Severity) is missing: Saturn - Father Time. We do not have and are lacking the Harvest God. Americans have reinstated this Saturn in Thanksgiving and Halloween. Not surprisingly these are among the most spirited periods of the year - a less diluted celebration than Christmas, which is also a lament. Europe completely lacks the means to celebrate the passing of time - the primordial form of bondage - as something to be willed. Europe lacks feasts, this is true in general.

…and Hinduism dictates the psychology of an entire gender how? You can analyze religions all you want, but it doesn’t make cattle holy any more than it makes an ex-planet own a three-headed mutt…at least not in reality.

I dunno about all the religion stuff and all, but it’s true that a lot of “strong” women like to be tied up and sometimes even peed on and what have you. Facts g.

I thought the strong ones did the tying up. Have I got it backwards?

I think when people start tying each other up, there’s a lot of talk about who’s strong and who’s got the dick and all that, but once it goes on long enough eventually everyone ties each other up and vice versa.

No offense, but I’m not seeing the slightest understanding of women in this thread nor why they want what they want or do what they do. BDSM is a very specific art that explicates a type of Yin-Yang paradigm that is seldom understood by the participants, but rather is instinctively felt.

How BDSM relates to the emancipation issue doesn’t seem coherent.
They are almost opposite concerns unless you are referring to her emancipation from her own bewilderment.
In BDSM, everything done (by those who know what they are doing) is very harmonious to instincts.
But what does that have to do with emancipation?