Aren’t beauty pagents just as degrading as Girls Gone Wild? Women are trotted out and put on display to be judged like a piece of meat, why is this so accepted? Are there any benefits to these vacuous displays?
And further more aren’t fashion models just as degrading to women and men? We’re basically turning these people into mannequines and making people who don’t have the body type that is considered “beautiful” or “sexy” feel like crap?
Is anyone with me on this? Or against me?
I often wonder why we place such negative values on the appreciation of beauty. People are no more responsible for how intelligent they are than how beautiful they are. It’s okay however, to appreciate intelligence. Seems paradoxical to me. Granted, I’m just as creeped out as the next guy by beauty pagents, but I think that is simply a repurcussion of my own biases.
With respect to “ugly” people being made to feel like crap by the “pretty” people, I must point out that the “stupid” people are often made to feel just as worthless by the “smart” people.
Beauty pagents are the extreme form of celebrating attractiveness; I suppose it’s corollary to the Nobel prizes being the extreme form of celebrating intelligence.
Interesting thread. Beauty pageants ARE weird. Calling children GIFTED in front of other children, that’s even weirder. Especially because all children want “gifts.” It conjures images of big wrapped boxes full of plastic figurines and model trains. But I remember teachers saying little Johnny is gifted, and Sang Mee is gifted. SCREW that. Where’s my gift, teach? I think beauty pageants are post-modern, a word I hate to use. But they’re clearly full of irony and ritual. But here’s my point. Inequality exists. As long as this is the case, there will be strife. But any attempt to quell it will be even worse…for so many reasons. This is a very serious conundrum you’ve pointed out. I think being witness to elitist contests and accolades that objectify the “gifted” can make you stronger and wiser. You have to live through that before you realize that “what you do with what you have” can be a richer and more aesthetically pleasing grid for accomplishment then merely revelling in what you were born with. At least this is more true today than ever, but it still may not get you a date or a grant. Or will it?
People are not all equal. Some people are endowed with more intelligence, some with beauty.
Why shouldn’t such things be recognised?
Because less intelligent and ugly people won’t feel ‘special’?
Please…thats weak.
Agreed.
However, it does these so called gifted children no good to call their talents special, either. Many of these gifted children, often the most gifted ones, feel that their gifts are enough, and become self-actualized, intellectually, much too soon.
The difference between atheletic gifts and intellectual ones is the fact that, to be a good athelete, you must do atheletics. To be intellectually gifted, though, you do not have to think.
As for the beauty pagents, I do not care. Their ugliness is evident to all but the most shallow of human beings. Why do you think they recieve such riddicule from people… such as Pope Wanker. Let them do their thing, and be assured that their bodies will only be pretty for about ten years. Their minds, however…
Are you saying everyone that competes in a beauty pagent is inherantly stupid and shallow?
Yes. Of what practical purpose does it serve? It’s merely ego masturbation. These women are the highest class of prostitutes known to man. They’re bred to be pretty, and trained to act like the archetypical woman. They are not themselves, on stage, or off. They cannot be, it’s not in their job, no, LIFE description.
Yes, they are about as ugly as livestock.
I wonder that very same thing myself. The idea that we do seem to place a certain negative element on appreciating/judging only based on beauty. In retrospective, however, it does seem somewhat hypocritical as I notice that it is more of a saying than an actual practice. Of course everyone want to say that they will judge others based on their personality but it is also a fact of life that physical appearance is just as, if not more, important in life.
On the other extreme scale, I have met people who seem to think that their own area of research/knowledge is the most area thing in the entire universe. I dont necessarily object to those views, but IMO it is no less of a vanity than those who only appreciate physical beauty/money/etc.
Yes, they are about as ugly as livestock.
well said, though I perhaps wouldn’t put it as strongly as you did…
Yan
I want to clarify that I have no problem when extraordinariness is recognized. But I do think how its recognized matters. The label “gifted” is problematic. Because the talent, or whatever it is, is not a gift in the main sense of the word, and this can be misleading to kids. When uttered around the unsophisticated or young, the word “gift” comes dangerously close to implying a giver. To me it sounds like somebody thought they were being PC by saying “gifted” instead of “advanced” or “smarter” or whatever actually is the case. But in my book the word gifted is far more offensive, and I’m sure gifted is really not the case. It isn’t a gift. It’s an ability. The word gift is too poetic, as it places, and imposes, a value on the ability. In truth, most “gifted” people see it as anything but a gift. Instead, it’s a malady, like diabetes, that you have to come to terms with.
The reason why I consider a beauty pagent to more depriciative to people then say a chess match or spelling bee, is because people are born to look a certain way, that can only be changed by artificial devices such as makeup and plastic surgery. The people who are not considered attractive enough to be a part of a beauty pagent can not change their bone structure with hard work and exercise. However, people who normally wouldn’t be able to take part in a spelling bee can work hard, focus, study and practice to become better.
But what about the objectification? Don’t beauty pagents and the like reinforce ideas about people, especially women, being objects? And by allowing them to continue and putting so much importance on them, aren’t we sending the wrong message about what is important to the youngins?
I think it is certainly okay, and healthy, to celebrate beauty. But to make such a spectacle of it, and only recognize one type of beauty certanly isn’t. And I would not compare a pagent to the Nobel prize at all. Nobell prizes are usually awarded to people who contribute to humanty, civilization and the advancement of science. Beauty pagents don’t contribute to the world or humanity in any positive way.
oh…boy…let me see
You have a beauty pagent. You have good looking girls. You have girls at home that are ugly but can afford a TV. The ugly girls see the hot babes and the ugly girls wish they could look like the hot babes on TV???
is that how the world works??? Well let me analyze this one
I accept the notion that everything in this universe has a purpose. We might not always know that purpose but everything has one. So the fact that some girls look better than others also has a purpose.
Now when a woman looks good and goes on TV to show off her good looks, that to me alone is not a problem. The problem gets to be when others see her and think that they have to be like her.
In a universe where everything has a purpose, the ugly girl is ugly for a reason and being ugly is not a bad thing for her (BUT SHE DOESN"T KNOW IT SO SHE THINKS BADLY OF HERSELF AND WANTS TO BE PRETTIER AT ANY COST)
This issue has to do with self love because you can never love someone else unless you love yourself first. Loving and accepting yourself for who you are is the first step to loving someone else.
The ugly girl should be able to love herself for who she is and I might even go as far as saying that the term ugly is rather subjective because each person is beautiful in one way or another. Some are smarter some are nicer some are friendlier…everyone has something beautiful about him or herself so NO the beauty pagent is not a bad thing in and of itself but some of the reacations and judgements that people who are watching make are wrong
But don’t beauty pagents send the message to “ugly” people, especially the young pubescent and prepubescent ones, that they are second class humans because they do not have the physical qualities of what sociaty equates with beauty? I think that it does. Yes, it is important to have a positive self image despite society, but when one is bombarded by these images and people are awarded with money and fame purley because of how they look it is almost impossible to come away without thinking (at least briefely) that you are less of a human being than them. These kinds of thoughts are magnified in the youth.
I totally agree with you that “ugly” and “pretty” are subjective, but “purpose” (as in everything has one) is subjective too.
Yes, I couldn’t agree more. And moreover, think of all the time taht is taken up by these pageants in the lives of those who are onvolved in them…thnik of how that time could be spent…sport, education, music, dancing…all manner of activities which could exercise the body and micd more than the pageant…
My image of a pageant is of one person sitting, preening and being fussed over by a whole host of others, before going out in front of an audience to appear not only beautiful , but sexually attractive…
It cannot be fair to inculcate young girls with the desire to be sexually alluring.
It is interesting that gere in the UK, we don’t , to my mind, have ANY beauty pageants at all…
I will leave this post on a more controversial point…
Without over-zealous mothers, bent on rivalry and the superficial, beauty pageants would not exist.
I looked at my calender, it is National bump an Old Thread Day. Wee
To add something constructive to this discussion.
If you place any kind of ‘value’ on things like Beauty, Intelligence, or lets say, Physicality ( to encompass physical strength, speed, dexterity, etc) then one might ask what sort of benefit does one receive from their gift (if they be so gifted) and how does Society benefit???
In a Hunter/Gatherer type Society I would say that Intelligence and Physicality both offer great benefits, with Physicality more short term than Intellignece ( My assumption here is that it is Intellignet men and women who advance a society through thought). That said, Physicality puts food on the table (Although Intelligence can make this easier) and serves to protect that table when another tribe comes running out of the hills.
Beauty, in this Society, might serve as a kind of inspiration… the world sucks, you only live 40 years and then die in horrible pain most likely, but damn Briganug shure is purty. So it has some value, nothing immediate though.
In modern times, Physicality is good to have around when you are walking down Bourbon Street during Mardis Gras, and it is definately great to watch at various sporting events, and still comes in handy during times of War, but it is not so immediately important.
Intelligence, on the other hand, allows you to process information and classify information that keeps your Nation safe. It allows you to invent bigger and better bombs, guns, and microwave ovens. It creates medicines that prolong life and eases suffering. It argues Laws that further Man’s pursuit of a perfect form of justice. It comes up with ideas like telephones so you can call your friends and tell them about the fight you got in during Mardis Gras. It creates automobiles and AirPlanes that allow you to travel across great distances without the risk of being eaten by wild animals. It may one day tame mother nature, lead to incredibly long life spans, cure all diseases. Put an end to world hunger, etc etc etc etc.
Why Intelligence should be appreciated in the modern world really needs no explanation
Beauty though… Beauty will get more beads tossed to you for flashing your girly or guy bits to the public at mardis Gras. Beauty may get you better jobs then what you deserve, and may increase your potential number of romantic partners, so it may have great value to the Beautiful person, but to a modern society… Beauty now is but a cheap whore… easily purchased for display on every street corner… You cannot watch a television program now (except in the UK 
) and go five minutes without seeing some beautiful person. The modern world has come to despise beauty… intelligent people often wrongly assume that because someone is Beautiful, they must be possess a smaller amount of Intelligence. People blessed with the gift of Physicality just sneer and point out that not many beautiful people could knock out Mike Tyson. Beauty gets no respect.
I don’t think that it is entirely fair. For example, if tomorrow, all the truly Beautiful people in the world decided that they would lock themselves up inside their homes so that no one could ever see them again, the world would miss something… miss something Beautiful.
Beauty has value, if only to itself. It should be appreciated. The fact that it is worshipped is not so much the fault of Beauty as it is the sad fact of life in this modern world of Nascar and NFL, and microwave ovens and telephones and diseases and cures and all that… that we still need the Beautiful.
Thats my take, anyway
My two cents on this is quite simple.
Beauty, atleast in the physical sense(or sexiness, to throw out another term) can easily be quantified by modern science. It all has to do with biological attraction, seeing, subconciously, qualities in the opposite sex of your species that makes you think they are a good candidate for reproduction. Most of this stems from having symmetrical physical features, and the rest it seems to come from societal influences on certain details of physical beauty(such as hair/eye color, hair length, ect, ect).
Other forms of beauty have nothing to do with this, obviously.
But to relate it to the topic of discussion…
If all a pagent is doing is exemplifying the biological attractiveness of a few certain invdividuals, then what is one gaining from this? I can’t think of any logical answer… perhaps its a good way to pick up a husband(most likely a rich one) that is watching. It boggles my mind really…