big brother at hand

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Spanking children under four a crime???
Smoking in your private property a crime???

I spank a child so that the child associates the pain with the wrong they have done. Children are constantly testing bounderies, and can be set in ways by 5. I know a mother who gave time outs to get screamed at every time. Curse words included. Yet without the stern disipline and rigorus structure, the child walked all over the mother at the age of 3. The terriable three’s? You have to get physical at this point. Spank the child and put it in the corner. Then tell the child why it got spanked. The pain is associated with the fruits of their wrong.

I smoke in cars with the blowers on high, and below. Then crack the window. All the smoke goes straight out the window. I believe this to be safe for children.

Now big brother is doing the thinking for us. Yet, this is democratic thinking. Strange since Bush has all the blame for attacking privacy. Yet he had the foresight to only use it against criminals. All the rest is useless information. And the foresight to make it as private as possiable. The democratic foresight??? None, except how we can get a message of progress in democratic favor.

I have lost hope in the future without God. This is just the beginning.

2

I have gained hope in future because I know there is no God. Maybe when more find out, they will realize that our frivolously arbitrary government needs change.

3

I agree that government should minimize intrusion, and it bothers me when they start monitoring Google searches and scanning through email, but I think these ideas are 100% justified.

Yes, that is why you spank - and yes, if you “do it correctly” the child will associate the pain with their wrongdoing. However, these two factors don’t mean that spanking is justified.

It turns out that there’s a pretty solid body of psychological studies on the necessity and effects of spanking, and they pretty much all agree that spanking = bad. First, there are multiple ways to modify behavior, and punishing wrong behavior, it turns out, is the least effective - that is to say, of all available techniques, it modifies behavior the most poorly. Turns out the most effective one is to actively reward good behavior, and to use proportionally slight punishment.

Second, it turns out that being spanked as a child is directly linked with a host of problems as an adult. First, the infliction of pain on any individual sparks a “i’m in danger” response that is proportional to the level and duration of pain. Since we’re built to mistrust and avoid that which puts us in danger, this leads to a measurable degree of alienation from the parents. Spanked children are significantly more likely to “rebel” (drugs, etc.) than non-spanked children. They are significantly more likely to be juvenile offenders than the non-spanked. And they are also significantly more likely to have problems with physical abuse and addiction when they are adults.

Last: smoking in the car with your young children? That’s absolutely ridiculous. It does damage their lungs, and leads to higher likelihood of asthma, allergies, and immunological deficiency. Can’t you wait until you’re out of the car, so they aren’t exposed to your smoke? If you can’t make that kind of small sacrifice for your children, you might want to re-evaluate your priorities.

4

Yeah, big big no no.

5

I would like to post more on this topic, but I feel off a skateboard ramp yesterday and my wrist is in a lot of pain, so I’ll be short.

I was raised in sweden, and it is illegal to hit, kick or do anything physical to a child there whether on the behind or on the face. I was never spanked, and I grew up without ever being grounded. when I was 10 I moved to the united states, in idaho. I never had a curfew at night. My mom sat down with me and told me about what kinds of things are dangerous etc etc. Most of my friends in high school did drugs, and some got pregnant. I didn’t do any of these things, besides drink a little.

When you hit a child (spanking is a mild term to mask hitting right?) you teach the child that if someone does something bad, and you are the athoritive figure it is ok to hit them. Children who are hit are more likely to fight later in school when they have quarell with other students.

In some situations you may also teach them that obeying athority is more important than understanding. This is militaristic and not a democratic way to raise a child.

It has also been shown that children who are Hit are more prone to lie as teenagers and adults. The reason is speculated to be because children fear being hit so much, that they learn to lie to avoid being hit. spare the rod, and teach why some behavior is right and wrong.

And of course it does not teach a good example of patience and problem solving to children.

In idaho, where I live, many children are beaten to death every year by their parents. I knew of gye who ended up hitting his baby so hard that it died. He is looked up. Some parents can not control “how hard they hit” their children due to stress at work, alcohol, anger level etc. To give the right to parents to hit children will open up doors for parents who cannot control how hard they hit to actually really really hurt a child. Idaho, needs to understand this, but they don’t want to change their “family traditions” and “heritage” it seems. ha!

I am all for dicipline in extreme behavior, but there is safer, better more productive ways than reactive athoritative hitting. Also, having unrealistic militaristic rules in teh house with young children is asking for conflict. Only enforce teh most important rules that are important because of danger etc, and let the kids play, like normal kids.

6

free country???
Not when people do the thinking for you. They become too one sided by thinking off onto one road. They refuse to see other paths when they think for themselves. The most dangerous path is one where they think there is no God. No proof there is no God. Lots of evidence that God works. IE the healing power of the Holy Spirit.

Spanking a child isn’t a negative thing. It’s a concequence for a negative action. It almost equals out the wrong by stopping the wrong. You can’t just use positive reinforcement. you have to stop negative actions and reward good actions. My mom was one to take something away when she didn’t like it, but she didn’t fill the void. Fill the void for children and you’ll have good results. Show them that it takes good actions to be loved. But also show them it hurts to do wrong. A good cop bad cop approach is the best answer.

I offered a realistic solution to smoking in cars with children.

7

the republican way is to allow people to want to quit smoking and learn for themselves. The democratic way is to have big brother think for you.

The Christian way is free will. free will to do right or wrong. You can not force someone tot love God. Nor your country.

8

Oh dear.

9

It’s a great ideal to let people make their own mistakes, and thus to learn. However, practically, it doesn’t work out well. While there are plenty of conscientious and smart people who really do learn from their mistakes, there are just as many (if not more) selfish people, who use the above ideal as a justification for why they should be able to continue being selfish.

Take someone who smokes in the car with his children. Obviously it’s harmful to the children - and unless they are older (16+), they won’t speak on their own behalf against the parent. Such a person is either ignorant of the negative effects of his actions - which is unlikely, since in today’s world, we’re all very aware of how bad smoking is - or else they simply don’t care, which implies that they’re selfish.

It’s nice to think that these selfish people should be left to their own devices. Either they learn and become better people, or else they don’t learn, and die from cancer. However, when the selfish actions of these people have a negative impact upon their children, that is when it makes very good sense to have legislation upon the subject.

Now, legislation on other matters - smoking pot, for example, where the only immediate sufferer is the smoker himself - can definitely be debated. Maybe we should have the freedom to harm ourselves. But most of us will agree that we should not have the freedom to harm others. This includes more violent acts, like murder and robbery - but it also includes acts of inconsideration and selfishness, like noise violations, indecent behavior, and smoking in the car with children.

10

You have reasonable points, but the simple fact is that the matter has been tested by psychologists, and you are wrong. The best behavioral modification, with the fewest undesirable side-effects (children that lie, children that become violent) involves no spanking.

This is an important point, so I’d like to reiterate. Your points are reasonable, but science has already tested the issue, and you are wrong.

Last - your “solution” to smoking in the car with children I think is entirely insufficient. Unless they are getting absolutely zero exposure to smoke - which is clearly not the case with your “solution” - you can have no justification in your actions.

11

Apparently your child is the recipient your beatings and your second-hand smoke. Are you a follower of Jesus? Jesus taught you to do unto others as you you have them do unto you. Would you have them beat you and blow smoke in your face?

12

Second hand smokers are just cheapskates who rely on the rest of us to pay taxes on tobacco so that they can get medical treatment when they eventually get cancers.

13

“No one rides your back unless it’s bent”.–Martin Luther King
“You can’t legislate morality”.–Bob Dillan
“I never got a spanking I didn’t deserve”.-- Ierrellus

14

Government is big. Sometimes some things are clearly right. Sometimes some things are clearly wrong. When it comes to children, there is instant controversy. Some folks would argue that children belong to the parent and can do almost anything they want to them. Some folks would argue about the opposite: that children don’t belong to you at all. So I think that’s the starting point, philosophically.

Practically, there are some things that I think most people agree on concerning child abuse. But remember, we’ve only been protecting children from their families for a little over a hundred years:
nyspcc.org/beta_history/index_history.htm
We didn’t have child labor law until 1938:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labo … ted_States
So as a society we have been largely indifferent to the mistreatment of children until recently, and I expect that the mentality of child-ownership and child-punishment is still remarkably ancient.

Just as the rights of women, workers, ethnicities, the environment, animals, etc. are slowly evolving, so to will the rights of children. While some laws may be perceived as mis-steps, my view is that progress in all of these areas is a good thing; that “more government” is good when it protects people from those who would exploit them (“mercilessly”).

Concerning the initial post, I suppose I would consider spanking and smoke a gray-area issue since I think we would all agree that it is possible to abuse someone, anyone, with both. But likewise, most likely most people spank and smoke around their children responsibly so the laws would be unfair in those cases.

Anyway, one more blurb: religion is an interesting topic when it comes to children:
youtube.com/watch?v=28pNxgD-ldc
“There is no such thing as a Christian child, there is only a child of Christian parents. Whenever you hear the phrase Christian child or Muslim child or Protestant child or Catholic child, the phrase should grate like fingernails on a blackboard.”

Talk about Big Brother. Religion is more like “Big Father”. :wink:

15

Most excellent, dude. Sweden sounds awesome:
parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/cr … ticle.html

(From the link):
“Children should be brought up without corporal punishment.”
1965 - 35%
1971 - 60%

So the 60% are imposing their will upon the 40%. Them’s the breaks. It sounds like progress to me.

16

In the OT it was ok to stone unruly children. Now they get ridilin (Sp.?) I’m not for either.

17

So you think by forceing people to live by your code, they will be better.

Lets say that smoking is bad over the positive side effects of being calm in this overstressing enviorment. Who are you to tell me how to handle stress.

18

so spanking children is wrong. And sitting them in a corner only tells them they have a boundry. What happens when they don’t care. Obviously some children respond to only being alloud to look in one dirrection (tools). And others think for themselves.

I think you limit your tests to get the results you want.

And you can not baby proof the world.

19

Obviously raised by an alcaholic /
Obviously needs a scape goat…|
Obviously needs to move on…|

20

Who does a child belong to? No one. I’d argue against spending the childs money, unless the child agree’s. But then that requires integrety. So how do you teach integrety. Religion demands more of us then we are willing to give without help. Help from a higher power.

The child doen’t have a say in beliefs it has to learn. That is religion. Something science tries to hate on from half the fact’s and conclusions it brings from half the facts. Face it we don’t know it all so making any conclusion is ignorance.

In hard times we did hard things. Now it’s safe for women to leave the den and hunt.

exploit the need to live? I thought we were past that. Socialism and comunism. But seriously. We only need food water and love.

See I’m smart enough to blow smoke out the window. I don’t need to be extra stressed because they want to war on cigerrettes. How about making it illegal to make profit off of cigerrettes. That would be acountability on the educated corperate level.

There are christ like youth centers. It’s called the YMCA. Or the Christian teen center in town. How many others do the same?

Big Father only wants to guide you, but allows you to make your own mistakes. Lets not start comparing the worse and call it all the same. Salem witch trials were based on the science of the time.