# Black holes -> space as a flat plane

Hello everyone. I have been reading about black holes lately and I understand everthing but then “they” say that that the black holes have a top, a plane, and that space is a flat plane… …and that doesn’t make much sense to me because from my understanding, in space things have no sides, top, and there are no directions. Of course there is the theory that everything bends around, but that doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. Shouldn’t it be that the black hole is more like a ball. And well, I guess I just want some input. I guess these questions don’t really have answers and aren’t really important but are still worth asking.

So there you have it.

Black holes are points of infinite gravity.

They have something called the “event horizon” and that is the “plane” you’re talking about, but you can’t think of it as a plane in the normal sense. If we, as three dimensional beings, tried to walk behind a black hole, it would still be there. If we tried to walk beside it, it will still be there. No matter which direction you look at it, it’s going to appear to be the same, flat, black hole. Now take this and rotate it around in alllll directions around the point that the event horizon is extended from. You’d see a flat plane, but that’s the nature of the “warped” spacetime. It IS a flat plane, and no matter what, light will bend so that you see it the same from every angle.

The interesting thing is light actually DOES represent a black hole. It does it justice in this case, by being a complete lack of light. The event horizon IS a plane, but space is warped such that it doesn’t matter which way you approach it, it will have the same “membrane” effect.

Hard to visualize without computers…

Ever play wolfenstein3d? You know how the badguys, if you walked around them by a 20 deg angle they still looked the same? Ever see an “object” in that game…a plant, or such. No matter which way you turn or look at it, it displays the same two-dimensional picture. It retains horizontal and vertical spatial translations, but it does not appear to have angular translation…

That’s a black hole.

God help us.

You are wasting your time studying black holes. Black holes are Satanic portals to the various Dantean malebolges of hell – that is all you need to know. As far as human consciousness is concerned, space is the a priori form of our intuition and therefore it will always be an unanswerable antinomy whether or not space is finite or infinite.

Methinks some people shouldn’t post in the science forum.

^^ i agree.

may i just ask : how updated is ‘a brief history of time’ on black holes?

Seriously, you are fucking crazy. Not just crazy, FUCKING crazy. I don’t think I’m going to come here for awhile; between seeing your deluded and grotesque pictures, and having to listen to your unsubtantiated ignorant religious dogma, I find myself wondering why I continually keep subjecting myself to the torment of an idiot. I have concluded that being exposed to you is analogous to watching Jerry Springer or daytime television- you numb my intelligence. Your posts stagnate any growth that this forum offers intellectually, as instead of reasonably discussing ideas, all topics resort to arguing about a first cause, and God.

I hope you don’t sincerely believe that blackholes are the devil. I suppose when you sneeze, your soul temporarily leaves your heart, too. Perhaps when one farts, that is devil leaving their body. Maybe the Earth is flat, and we should indict anyone that attempts to prove otherwise. Absolutely fucking ludicrous. People like you are responsible for the the stagnation of progress. You are a throwback to feudal ignorance; and quite frankly, it’s unbelievable. My attempts at being civil have failed, and it appears your absolutely maniacal perception of the world will not change.

Isn’t that just what you’ve been brought up to believe? I mean from the media? How do you know that?

Why?

Is that true? Seriously. That’s so awesome.

Isn’t that just what you’ve been brought up to believe? From the media?

Couldn’t agree more…what better reason to ban someone?

Oh this is just ridiculous! I was idle for all of five minutes!

It’s good if you want an introduction. Another good book is The Elegant Universe, it’s very lucid.

Hey! A black hole has potential for infinite density. So, my question is this - Then how can a black hole ever exist? Because wouldn’t it condense itself more and more into a point and disappear or explode immediately? And this should happen and keep happening and so there is virtually no way that a black hole could ever exist for long. So, I don’t really understand how scientists defend their theory of a black hole, honestly.

Hawking’s books are well up to date, however, a few months ago, Hawking realized that he had made a mistake in his calculations, I believe it was something concerning whether “consumed” particles were spat out of a black hole or simply wholly consumed meaning that they disappeared more or less.

It seemed that Hawking at first believed particles to “disappear” but later realized the opposite.

My memory at this point is very vague so bare with me but perhaps Google may assist you.

Brian Greene is amazing at explaining cosmic phenomena and you ought to watch his Elegant Universe series, by PBS, which can be streamed from their website. Google may assist you here as well.

the theory isnt’ totally sorted out yet. What you are refering to with particles spewing out of balck holes is a byproduct of zero-point energy. one tenet of quantum mechanics is that space is not empty, but filled with very short lived particle/anti-particle combinations. they appear and dissapear constantly, with the net energy ofempty space being zero at any time.

if this pair forms right at the event horizon, then one of the partciles can be sucked in, while the other remains free. if the antiparticle is sucked in, then it reduces the mass of the black hole by a small amount.

at least i think that’s how it goes.

as for the original poster, you should read “Flatland”. then you will understand the analogy.

dont worry about the bowling ball on a trampoline picture, it is stupidity.

what einstein should have said was: the closer you get to an object of mass, the stronger it pulls on you. i think einy just wanted to alienate the lay people.

all the bowling ball analogy is supposed to say is that if you imagine the bowling ball in the middle of a trampoline and gravity pulling the bowling down and curving the trampo then when you put a marble in there, it will behave like the earth if it were similarly placed near the sun

i think when you say the black hole has a flat top, you are refering to the picture with an upside down cone that connects to the flat part above?

the curvature in that figure is only supposed to represent the strength of the force of gravity, the lower the point on that plane, the stronger the force of gravity at that point.

the black hole diagram ‘rips’ a certain portion of that sheet out (the portion contained within the event horizon) because the escape velocity of a photon travelling at exactly light speed is faster than light speed, escape therefore impossible.

your problem is you think its really complicated and its totally not.

walk up to a black hole in space and the event horizon is an imaginary, but very black sphere surrounding it. go inside that sphere, and even if your a photon, your not coming out.

Good points, Warrior Monk. It is just as well we have people like you to watch out for us, because of the danger of an army of thousands of apes finally discovering bootstraps and coming back in time to destroy as all. (As you well know, Black Holes have been implicated in Time Travel along with bootstraps).

I am not so convinced about space being an unanswerable metallic compound however, but you can prove anything when A and !A are both true, so I guess it’s possible, given A and !A. Oh what, that’s antimony, not antinomy. This sentence is false, therefore we are safe from the apes?