Can anyone help me describe what many people have written about, the concept of “being born again”. Jesus,Khrishnamurti,Sri Arobindo all said directly that we have to “die” now-to have this happen. What did they mean by this? It’s certain that they meant it figuratively, that perhaps our ego has to in a sense change.this is a problem because our ego is an important part of our personality, or, our self. Some people talk of the conventional versus the transcendental self. Finally there is an implication that this type of “living death”(which seems like a psychological process), carries over to the spiritual realm, thereby somehow eliminating the difference of “death” between the two aspects. In christianity, the concept of the trinity . The mystery of the ritual of the mass implies the magic necessary to overcome the believer’s reliance to overcome these two very different deaths , vis , the spiritual, and the physical. If so, how does the concept of early Medieval magic relate to the kind of magical thinking, psychologists often associate with irrational thinking characterized by people suffering from mental illness? Another correlation can be made with medieval magic? Or is that type of magic form the bases of a Jungian archetype that becomes the new witchunt? Where does fantasy end and reality begin? Or are they still an anomalie?
Obe, you have been out here alone for so long. I was hoping someone would come to help you out, but so then, here I am. Being born-again is not fantasy nor is it magical. Simply put: Man is a sinner and eternally separated from God. Jesus Christ came to save sinners and reconcile them to God the Father. When men are see that they are sinners in need of a savior, they would ask forgiveness for their sins, trust Jesus by faith, and receive the promise of salvation. The ‘old man’ [old sin nature] is put to death and the ‘new man’ [new spirit-filled nature] comes alive to eternal salvation. God the Father now sees us as acceptable to enter into His Kingdom because of the work of the Son, Jesus. The new birth [born-again] has now taken place.
Selah7+. Yes I agree with your message. And thanks for your help. It is not for myself that I wrote the “magical” process of religion. Brothers, ministers of the Faith and Priests will all agree that the sacrament of the Transsubstantiation of thr Mass is a magical process. We have come to misinterpret the word “magic” in light of the lowest common denominator. Some of jesus’ own acts were magical. An example of which, is turning water into wine, of creating an abundance of fishes, of walking on water, raising of lazarus, the healing of the blind and the possessed, and his very own ascension. This is what I meant as a very clear form of magic. Magical thinking, as in the mentally afflicted, is normal, if they believe in Christ’s miracles. I do, and I am not at all confused between the various views of magic.
I see. Best to use the word, Miracle instead of Magical. I do understand the concept of the Roman Catholic doctrine of ‘Transubstantiation’. However, it is quite a stretch of the example that Jesus used in the participating in the elements at the Last Supper together with the disciples. The ‘wafer’ or bread, was never meant to be the literal body of Jesus and the wine to be the literal blood of Jesus. Jesus is the Bread of Life, because it is only through him and the work on the cross that we can have eternal life. Our physical food nourishes our physical body, but the food Jesus gives nourishes the soul to life. The meal was a representation of the Life-Giver who will not eat nor drink again until that day the saints [believers / christians] are together again with Him in Heaven. The Bible calls it, “The Marriage Supper of the Lamb.” He is the bridegroom, the church is the bride. He is the perfect sacrifice for our sins [Lamb of God]. Lambs were sacrificed in the old testament times to show the coming of the Messiah and that He would be the One to provide the washing away of the sins of men. The blood of lambs, or any animal, never atoned for sins, it was given under the Law, but it was always as a picture of the coming Messiah. Only through faith in Jesus Christ can men obtain salvation.
This is true only in the abstract. I’ve been around Christians all my life and never once have I see that the “old man” is put to death. Let me tell you the truth about this idealistic conception of the old man/new man paradigm : the old man never dies. It is just an ideal, not reality at all. Those born again sin as much as those that aren’t born again. If anything, they just hide it better.
Look, V, you let me tell you the truth…I don’t care who you are looking at. People are sinners and they will disappoint you and betray you. They are just as imperfect as you are. Stop looking at people and put your eyes on the good Lord. He is the One you need to put your trust in. The old man must be crucified [the flesh]. That refers to our sin nature. And yes, we will deal with that until the Lord takes us home. No man can possibly be perfect in this life. That’s why we need Christ! But at least Christians have forgiveness and an Advocate, to stand in defense for them against the accusations of the devil [humm…] Don’t be deceived, the enemy is very powerful and knows what buttons to push. Sometimes we get the victory and sometimes we fail, but, “if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” You can have that too, but instead you butt your head against the wall. So then, is it the sins of others that is keeping you from trusting in Christ, or do you think you are perfect and have no need of a Savior?
Are you aware that many Christians including Evangelical Christians who claim the born again experience, also believe that the Eucharist which they often call Holy Communion or the lord’s Supper, is symbolic and does not involve physical transubstantiation?
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Yes, V, you also do not understand the spiritual teaching of those statements. Many others did not understand either and thought Jesus was teach cannibalism. That is disgusting, but that was not the teaching. Those who thought that walked away and lived their lives on their own without God, then… and without God in eternity. Jesus is the “Bread of Life”, it is only by studying [consuming within your hearts and minds] the nourishment of the Word which gives the Light of the knowledge, wisdom and goodness of God, which will bring you to repentance and salvation of your soul. Those who reject Him will be rejected, those who trust Him will be rewarded. “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.” John 1:4 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” Revelation 3:20 “He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear…” Revelation 2:17 I pray for you V. You know enough that you are without excuse and the judgment ‘draweth nigh’. You must turn to God for help. Ask Him to show you the truth and to give you the faith you need to truly believe, and He will. As I told you, don’t look at sinful men to determine what you will believe or not. Look to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of your Faith. [-o<
Obe, these are the things that men need to know…to turn from their pride, disobedience and sin and turn to God and His Son, Jesus for the only means of Truth, Reality and Salvation. This is the beginning of being ‘born-again’, unto a new life in Christ. When you do that, your eyes will be opened and the understanding that can only come from God will be given resulting in great joy! I pray for you and all those I communicate with here. I am compelled by God to be here for a time to bring this message to some who may not know or understand. It is not my doing or my words, but God’s.
Felix, transubstantiation is a doctrinal teaching of the church of Rome. Is it amazing to you all out there that a man [priest] can change a wafer of flour and a cup of juice into the literal body and blood of Jesus? And if so, why would they want to do such a disgusting thing? It is a perversion of the teaching, implemented by the "Great Deceiver’.
S, I’m glad to give you the opportunity to preach your message, but how do you get your “spiritual” interpretation out of these verses? :
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Obviously you’re just making things up. You may as well preach transubstantiation.
ALL scriptures are about SPIRIT. All people mentioned are spoken of as thought they were nothing but their spirit/behavior. Behavior is all that mattered. They were spiritual people, not materialists.
Blood == issues/concerns of the heart (passions) Meat == “Flesh” == mature wisdoms, as opposed to “milk” for the immature.
The message was simply “those who take into themselves (‘consume’) my wisdom and passion are part with me and shall [spiritually] live eternally”.
Now you can go back to being as pedantic as your lusts dictate.
Those who thought that walked away and lived their lives on their own without God, then… and without God in eternity. 
Jesus is the “Bread of Life”, it is only by studying [consuming within your hearts and minds] the nourishment of the Word which gives the Light of the knowledge, wisdom and goodness of God, which will bring you to repentance and salvation of your soul. 
Those who reject Him will be rejected, those who trust Him will be rewarded. “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.” John 1:4 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.” Revelation 3:20 “He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear…” Revelation 2:17 I pray for you V. You know enough that you are without excuse and the judgment ‘draweth nigh’. You must turn to God for help. Ask Him to show you the truth and to give you the faith you need to truly believe, and He will. As I told you, don’t look at sinful men to determine what you will believe or not. Look to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of your Faith. [-o<
