To all Christians reading this some of whom may be my brothers in arms - I never know where Im being read by whom but find out later -
I am not here to bash christianity just for the sake of it. Ive learned of some of its hidden meanings through yogic philosophy, and I have immense respect for the yogi master that seems to have taught Jesus in the decade he was away -
but something is clearly lacking in the doctrine. I wish for this lack to be overcome. Whether that means christianity is overcome, or that it finally realizes itself as a doctrine which doesn’t hate its own power, that is not up to me - I am the challenger. I demand of the religion that it rise beyond what it has been, because these are the days of transitioning to a completely new aeon and things have to be done now.
I have continually asked, wondered, what is “the Christ”?
What is the “cosmic Christ”?
Im not asking for repetition of doctrine, Ive probably read everything - Im asking in terms of - what must it be, for it to dignify the Earth?
In my opinion, when Christianity overtook Europe, it was lost, because it had no definition of itself as a power, only as a subject.
What must Christ become so to her comfortable with its power?
Ive earlier and elsewhere proposed the concept of the Horned Christ.
Can we work with this?
Because of the dichotomy ‘jesus’ vs ‘satan’. I just cant make sanctity out of that.
It is tyranny, it forces me to choose between entities both of whom I do not love, both of whom have done nothing to indicate that they value what I love.
Youre either with me or against me. Thats the christian logic and I aint with that.
To that voice I say; Im against your whole dichotomy and I wont fall in the trap of becoming a satanist just because you desecrate what is holy to me and he is your enemy.
All the religion ever says about the devil is precisely what has been done in the name of the jesus.
Can you really not see the antithetical difference between Jesus and Satan? Those are like extreme opposites. It’s like not seeing the difference between North and South - “They are both directions so they must be the same.”
I think maybe you are confusing satanistic subversion of Jesus’ teachings with what Jesus was actually saying. Jesus was far from being anti-jew - quite the opposite (despite the Christian vs Jew warring). It is like those who claim that Mr Trump was anti-American - just extremely daft political stupidity.
Jesus was = STOP HATING EACH OTHER!
Satan was/is = HATE EVERYONE!!
How can you not see that?
Catholic Christianity became support of the Roman Empire which was antithetical to the Judaist effort to destroy the Roman empire - two political/religious opponents.
So in the war, it became Jew vs Catholic - war of secret, behind the scenes, cabals to reign over all mankind - one through creating division and one trying to unite.
Jesus was all about trying to unite - although knowing that many would insist on dividing - “either you are trying to help unite or you are part of the move to divide”.
Jesus was just saying that either you are striving to help life help itself or you are something else - not trying - or actually serving divisiveness. What else is there? You have to be one or the other.
Satan is all - ALL - about creating division by NOT going along - by hating the “other” - whoever that might be. And even if you do not hate - by doing nothing - you are helping the division. It takes conscious effort to stave off the intrinsically easier persuasion to depart - to separate - to become a part of the chaos of the insubstantial - the space between the substantial.
So IF you are not trying - you are the problem. - you are the anti-life - the devil thwarting the conserving of life. Life is the effort - and the real Jews know that.
If you really are trying - you are life - the opposite of Satanism.
Satanism is Mindless Power - with total disregard of life.
You either regard life in your decisions or you disregard life for sake of your mindless urges. Which are you?
Obsrvr. I’m going to tell you something very straight forward.
When James was on these boards…
I wasn’t as smart as him. Simple. True.
Now I’m a billion times smarter than him.
I know the problems of existence. Not only do I know them, I know how to solve them.
Problem number 1.)
The pleasurable exclusive access problem
Problem number 2.)
The negative zero sum problem
Violating both of these sends you to hell. Since every being is doing it, that sends every being to hell! That’s a serious fucking flaw with the current plan! Some hells are worse than others.
I made a new plan:
Hyperdimensional mirror realities attached to our desire manifestation structures.
It’s a flawless plan.
It actually solves this problem:
We live our desired experiences at nobodies expense.
I’m literally the guy who’s doing all this shit right now. Not you. Not James.
But is it some kind of a proposition derived from a more general statement? I can understand that people want to deduct and theorise out of the Gospel stories and Epistles, that is what Theology is, but I believe that religion is on a different level. The reductionist rationality tries to make something tangible, graspable out of the stories, but in fact they are more an experience recorded, without having that structure of solid fact. The Gospels ask rhetorically, who is this? The question is put to the disciples, who then answer from faith. The Old Testament does something similar, even though the symbolic language tries to form a basic understanding of the world, the stories are often very allegorical and early theologians have said that the allegorical approach is the right way to read them. How else? The moral teaching of the OT is superseded by the teaching of Christ that goes a step further in professing love as the will of God that wants to be expressed in Christian lives, making them the “salt of the earth”.
Felix has somewhere on this thread stated that the church has failed in this, which is something I agreed with. It is a radical lifestyle that Jesus requires of his followers, which led to the Jewish Christians forming communes in which there was no possessions and they shared everything. However, it also led to problems and Paul was collecting from his churches to support them in Israel. To begin with, the teaching of Christ was radical, and people today forget that. The despairing cry of the disciples, “who then can be saved?” is met by the assurance that there will be a “paraclete”, an advocate, helper, or comforter to help them, commonly assumed to be the Holy Spirit. It is the reason why penance became such a big subject in the church.
You also have to see the church in its historical setting, not just its failures in history. Many things that we now find horrific were commonplace in the middle ages, and the various cultures around the world, despite how we may honour them today, were just as bloody. The church was as much a part of that world as it was a driving force for a new morality. This is why the church is said to have been hypocritical, because its ideals were extremely difficult to implement. However, those ideals have gradually become a measure of civilised society – despite the widespread hypocrisy that is still around (in and out of the church). But this is not a purely Christian problem. Wherever moral ideals are professed, there is hypocrisy.
Where do you think that Islam arose? It wasn’t Asia but Asia minor in 7th century Saudi Arabia. But there is also said to have been Indian influences of Hellenism (Indian Sources of Hellenistic Ethics (socrethics.com)) in early years (, even though Alexanders invasion made a huge cultural impact.
I think that Watts saw a lot of fertility in religions, his statement was pointing out that much of what can be known is known. Our problem is in the implementation, because we have words on a page and not experiential knowledge. It is wrong to assume that this is changing or different today. Watts’ subject in the book is the fact that human beings, particularly in the West, have an individualistic perspective which also means that they can’t conceive of the whole and of themselves being one aspect of that whole. Our minds have difficulty in perceiving anything other that bits and opposites, failing to see the opposites as the different sides of the whole. controlled in that way, the senses are overwhelmed with the connectedness that they haven’t been able to see. This has led people to a different interpretation of religion, including Christianity, based on the vision of wholeness.
See above on the nature of being. The efficiency that enhances life has come very much from and since the enlightenment. I think that our perception of values from thousands of years ago is rather idealistic and people are glad that there is a modern interpretation that saves them having to accept archaic laws. I have listened to Sadhguru, or Jaggi Vasudev, an Indian Yogi and Mystic, who follows his tradition but with a lot of common sense. He says, “If you trace a tradition back to its origin, you will find its roots in the inner experience of an individual or a group of people. A tradition is therefore valuable as an inspiration or tool so that the present generation can arrive at the same experience.” It is this value that we have to transport today.
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Very idealistic view of a very brutal time …
That antithesis is exactly what I rejected as tyrannical.
Also I noted that what was done in name of Jesus has been the most violent episode in human history; the murder of virtually the entire male population of an entire continent, for example.
So whereas the theoretical antithesis is absolute - a form of ideology I find crude and damaging to the spirit, the actual behavioral results of adhering Jesus is very dark indeed.
I think that this has to do with the absoluteness of the dichotomy, which is unhealthy and unrealistic.
There are no such dichotomies in nature.
Youve clearly misread me.
Ive rejected the absolute dichotomy and ascribe the factual violence that christianity represents to that absolute dichotomy.
I tis confusing to me that you can think this but I suppose catholics in general think that they have a peaceful organization.
Im from Jewish and Viking lineages and no one has done more to harm us than the Catholics, who were always waging war against people who just wished to govern themselves.
It is curious that the catholics dont see that they are the worlds largest warmachine.
This is at the heart of what I dislike about christianity; it believes itself to be peaceful while it is burning people alive!
I dont see how you guys can keep ignoring this, but Im guessing it is because you never took the trouble to look at it from a nonchristian perspective.
And Jesus was a Jew, mind you, not a Catholic!
Factually, whatever is good about Jesus himself is Jewish, and whatever is corrupted about his teaching is Catholic or Protestant.
The first truly Christian thing the Catholic church might do is to thank the Jews for producing their savior and ask for their forgiveness for two thousand years of persecution of the family of that savior.
Its really very obvious when youre not looking at it through a papal (caesaric) lens.
Hold on - what is, to your mind then, the moral teaching of the OT? The ten commandments? It is a very large collection of stories and certainly the Jews do not consider there to be a singular moral teaching to it. That is why they have the Talmud; endless reasoning about what may have been meant, here, there - Jewish morality is always in evolution, as morality should be if it is to be vital.
But what Im speaking to generally is simply, reality. Not what is professed about people in Jesus’ time of whom we have absolutely no factual knowledge, but about what has factually been done by christians throughout the reign of christianity. Which is very horrible and I dont see anyone even attempting to address that.
Thats what makes me distrust christianity more and ore - the fact that no christian ever wants to reflect on his tradition, that with all the brutality that it represents, the sanctimoniousness reigns supreme.
Its dirty, unwashed.
I hope there will be a transformation in this, that christianity will become self-aware. And this is what Im trying for here. If I didnt have that hope I wouldnt be spending energy on it.
No, I cant go along with that. The world is as brutal as ever, perhaps more brutal at this point than it has ever been, and especially civilized society is endlessly brutal in the costs it inflicts on other life.
The christians, after the prechristian romans, brutalized Europe and near completely destroyed the beautiful cultures of northern Europe.
The desecrated the goddesses of nature everywhere, desecrated the female sex in general, jusr desecrated every single beautiful thing of humanity, and called this desecration, holy.
All of this is the very opposite of love.
What could be more loveless than the institutionalization of love?
Asia minor is part of the continent of Asia.
Yes, Indian culture contributed to the mathematics that flourished in the rise of Islam. But mostly it was Greek influence.
The golden age of Islam, from roughly 700 to roughly 1100, includes vast amounts of mathematicians and astronomers. The word Algebra is an Arab name, Al Jabr.
I find that this inability only exists in the Christian and late islamic worlds - it doesnt exist in Paganism. We have absolutely no trouble with experiencing the divine, as it is literally in each atom, and our gods reflect thi and our rituals are effective in bringing this out.
Christianity is the suppression of the divine, as seen from our perspective; even the suppression of its own prophet, as you and Felix agree.
Yet the Enlightenment, flowing out of the Renaissance, was a result of the abandoning of the Christian approach to wisdom, and a return to the Greek approach.
Modernity and emancipation all happened in fierce struggle against the church.
Only in this very recent moment in time, there is a doctrine of institutionalized love that is even more cynical and machinal than christianity, which is Marxism; and only now, Christianity is becoming something relatively decent, relatively self-aware compared to that newer tyrannization of love.
Its not idealistic, as it is my personal experience, I am happy and fulfilled through the development of Presocratic philosophy as well as Norse paganism. I know there are millions on this same path.
The brutality of the time is the end of the great monotheistic faiths, their discovery of the truth about themselves;
these end times have been announced in the early writings of these faiths, I imagine their prophets were able to divine the ultimate consequences of their tenets;
the very dark consequences implicit in the institutionalization and legislation of love, its conditioning by obligation. Thou shalt love me, through me, as me, or suffer!
Thou shalt love this, but burn to death that - for god is love!
that ethics is coming to its natural end. How could it have ended otherwise than in an apocalypse? This was always implicit.
What lies beyond this apocalypse is a return to earthly values, to the capacity of actual, spontaneous joy, honest valuing, natural love, which is far sweeter than prescribed love. But this does nothing to diminish the brutality of the apocalypse. Trust me, Im not idealist and never have been. That is precisely why I dont have illusions about christianity and its destiny, and why I so much love Odin.
What I mean by that is not an ‘institutional love’ such as Christianity enforces, not a restriction placed on what your love should be like, whom you should love and to what you should attribute your love, all those things are Christian Imperialisms, essentially commanding that you love your Heavenly Emperor and not your own roots.
I rather mean the invitation to recognize that being is itself valuing, and to cultivate being as such.
To a Northern European perspective, here is what happened:
First Rome conquered much of our lands, but it allowed us to worship as we pleased. Then Rome took on Christianity as its state religion, and began killing everyone in its dominion who didn’t wish to join this lugubrious imperial religion. Everyone who stood their ground, everyone who was brave enough to remain true, was murdered, “for his own sake” no less.
The irony is that the subjects of this regime actually believe that this hideous oppression is love. Much like the raging lunatics of marx today believe their masters brutality and their own emotional poverty is love.
The time in which Jesus lived was much like the present time when the age was turning. Jesus saw everything not in terms of the way God had been conceived in the Hebrew Bible but in terms of The God who was coming. This is the unknown God the God above God. It’s the same today. Everybody feels it on some level whether they are conscious of it or not. People are looking around for a prophet to tell them what’s going on.
I think it feels the same because every time they try to take down the world’s leading nation they use the same tactics - propaganda and satanism (or “obfuscation and extortion”). Back then it was Rome and now the USA. Both republics.
When James said it is the “Godwannabes” that are the root problem and “in war there are no good guys” - that rang true. The Persians wanted to be God - Caesar wanted to be God - Judea wanted to be God - the Catholics wanted to be God - the Nazis wanted to be God - the Ayatollah wants to be God - Islam wants to be God - the CCP wants to be God - and most significantly today the authoritarian globalists want to be God. And in order to be God they must use every conceivable trick and overreach abuse to gain that power - including creating diseases.
What I like about the US Constitution is that it directly forbids anyone from gaining that power through its separation of powers and democratic elections (including the Electoral College). And that is why the global Godwannabes hate it so much and are trying to pull every possible trick to get rid of it - through subversion, Marxism, and insurrection. In the US the Democrat party serves the global authoritarians right on the verge of making the US a one party, CCP style communist regime - another Godwannabe regime.
And during this war to be Global God against the US Constitution - there are no good blokes.
How was that? He seemed to be making sense to me (keep in mind that the Catholic Church and Jesus are not exactly the same entity any more than George Washington and the USA are the same).
I would suggest that you try to stop spouting about things that you obviously know so very very little about - but then you wouldn’t be able to say anything at all.
Each historical epoch has its own world including its own cosmology. Therefore, it is in effect a different universe The Christian epoch passed into the modern one and that one is dissolving as we speak.
