I’m suprised that this has not been a topic of discussion. I have not heard a good reason of why either of these guys should be President yet. It seems to me that everyone has been lead to hate Bush so much that they just go for Kerry b/c he is not Bush. While being the smart Philosophers that we all are, I was wondering what are your views on the election. I know that there is alot of Philosophy behind the kind of Democracy that we live in now and how some believe that is dosent really matter if we vote or not. But I’m not really looking for the Philosophy of Democracy, I just want to know who you like in this election and why?
I don’t see how it’s ultimately all that philosophical. Whether or not either man deserves to be president, one of them WILL be president; and so the question becomes, who would you rather see in the White House?
And that question is best answered in the Social Sciences forum.
I think the election drums up fertile ground for philosophy. Mainly is epistemology. How do we know which attributes are best in todays gameboard, how do we know who has these attributes? How do we even guess? Even if there weren’t layers upon layers of spin and complexity surrounding every aspect of politics, it would still be very dificult to ascertain with any intellectual rigor who’s the better man. And yet everyone thinks they’re right. Hooray for democracy, hooligans can vote! It makes me long for aristocracy, but I admit democracy is the least suckiest of the sucky govs we’ve come up with.
One issue in particular seems cut and dried to me…stem cell research. Bush’s ridiculous fundamentalist views are literally costing people their lives for no reason. To me, that’s the only reason to vote for Kerry. If you disagree with something you hear some reporter regurgitate to get ratings, by all means do something about it. But don’t think voting is enough, Fatso.
It’s all a game. So I’m in.
Kerry, only because electing a Deocrate will give the young idealist hope. I fully expect either of them to continue the status quo full tilt. But the inspiration a turnover would cause makes it desirable.
Bush - because Jesus is on his side
I’m voting for Bush. There’s not a doubt in my mind. He’s been leading the country well and will continue to do so. He’s a good man who believes in good values. He trys to uphold what is right. People don’t agree with him because they don’t have as good of values. Doing bad stuff has become a bigger part of our culture and Bush will try to uphold the values we should have. People need to stop and think about the right thing to do. Kerry will only help people who don’t deserve help. He will try to help gay people get married and kill innocent babies. Bush is aginst these things. As to the war, it’s the right thing. I don’t want to hear anymore people saying Bush has murdered people. Bush hasn’t caused anyone to be murdered. Freedom has a price. Kerry will only lead America towards more moral decay.
seeker, he belives in makeing a lot of money. What’s so morally enlightening about that?
Translation:His values are fundamentalist christian values. So are mine. Go Bush!
Personally, I’m not american so have no real opinion. But given a choice between bush and kerry, I think I’d choose to just sleep in on election day.
I really have nothing to add to this fella’s post except that I REALLY love the above part that I put in bold. Do you think John Kerry is really FOR killing babies? I mean c’mon! That’s not even debate. That’s just screaming across the way at your enemy. Killing babies!? "Hi. I’m George W Bush and I support this message. Did you know my opponent John Kerry Wants to Kill babies? he also wants to do things that just aren’t right. Just not right, That’s why as president I’ll work hard [Makes that goofy politician hand gesture where they point with their thumb and a clenched fist] to pass the the Do Right Things amendment. This will make it against our constitution to do things that aren’t Right. My opponent doesn’ t want to do right things. In Fact he wants to kill babies and legalize buggery. On Election day, remember do what’s right. Vote George W Bush
Hi. I am Pro Life. That said,
I don’t think that a fetus is actually considered a baby until it is born. The whole “when life begins” argument. Even if life begins at conception, while in the womb it is still a fetus, not a baby.
But even if killing innocent babies was wrong, may I ask if killing guilty babies is bad? Exactly how does a baby become innocent or guilty anyway? I know I have used the term myself in the past… but that was in anticipation of hypothetical arguments showing that the baby was, in fact, guilty of something. Whacky as that sounds, I have it done.
Also, if killing innocent babies is wrong, perhaps it is also wrong to wage an unjust war that results in the death of innocent babies and adults as well.
In a roundabout way, Bush is guilty of killing innocent babies already. You should probably vote for Nader.
Ding ding
This is the election to build up the 3rd parties. Bush is Bush and Kerry is Bush-lite. Not the greatest of choices.
I say help the 3rd parties build up, that way either:
- Someday down the road, you can have a 3 party system.
2)At least one of the two major parties have to incorporate those 3 party ideas into their own platform.
this is such limp-wristed bullshit. you Naderite fuckers cost us the last election. Nader got 57000 votes in Florida. Gore lost by like 530 votes. If Gore had won Florida, he would have won the election.
Shall I ennumerate the differences between Democrats And Republicans? under G W Bush
The Safe Levels of Arsenic in Water were raised - meaning industry can now dump more arsenic in water supplies
GW Bush supports those Wise Use sons of bitches out in the West. Bush's response to the wildfires was to cut down more trees. As anyone who knows anything about wildfire knows cutting down trees doesn't prevent wildfire, thinning underbrush prevents wildfire. Bush baldly supported the commodification of PUBLIC FUCKING LAND! goddamn it! These Are national fucking parks! YOU own those trees and Bush said "well I don't know dick about ecology, but my ideology tells me that thinning trees out is ok so chop 'em down boys"
Bush essentially Made it illegal to conduct stem cell research. Why? because He's a fucking evangelical Christian and stem cell research goes against his faith. Regardless of the amount of lives it will save or the fact that really no "babies" are being killed by the research.
Bush has appointed several reactionary federal judges who would love to roll back every liberal accomplishment since 1933 in every area from race relations to sex relations to labor relations
Bush put forward several billion dollars in tax cuts to help fight the recession and put the economy back on track. the problem is - fiscal Policy is for suckers and doesn't fucking work - the lag time is too great.
I seriously doubt Al Gore would have done any of the half-assed hairbrained bullshit that GW Bush has perpetrated on this country. And I haven't even mentioned the vendetta based ideologue war that the dumb fucker dragged us into with lies and half-truths in Iraq.
I cannot believe that after four years of Republican rule you fucking green party hippies are so dense that you still maintain that there's no or little difference between the parties. jesus, fuck off to Germany where you'll be welcome.
LOL!!! I Love this guy…Hermes you seem quite knowledgable on politics, so direct me in the right way to go. I know you have a Philosophy degree so I trust your opinions.
In many ways I agree. America must be an incredibly cynical country when its populace is lied to to start a war and people actually consider the lie to be a good thing.
Thus I will gladly tell any Bush supporter to vote for Nader, as they will never vote for Kerry anyway.
Anyone who thinks Bush is a radical Christian needs to just shut up. That is just stupid. Christian values are ones everyone should live by. He is a Christian, but his ideas aren’t radical. Liberal ideas are wrong for the most part. I’m glad Bush is trying to change what liberal idiots have made. Addressing the moron who said Bush has killed babies with his “unjust” war. That is just stupid. Babies in abortions are innocent because they haven’t done anything that could be wrong. Anybody for abortion might as well say they want a law to make murdering legal. As I’ve said a million times, people have died in this war, but there is a price. The war is not unjust and all you people against what our country’s (America) president is doing are bordering on treason. Where is America going to? Americans are anti-American and full of evil ideas. Why? We have people talking about how they will vote for anyone but Bush. Don’t do that. That is foolish. Don’t vote for Nader or Kerry just because you don’t like Bush. Bush knows what’s best, and all you people should wake up. I want America to be a place where good values are protected not where my money is taken to help some guy sitting on the couch all day. Not one where tree-hugger idiots run the show. Not one where people can murder legally and where criminals are fought for. Man, liberal ideas are just so stupid. Let’s let the war in Iraq defeat more terrorists. If we hadn’t shown our military might in Iraq who knows, maybe another terrorist attack of epic proportions would have happened. I happen to be a Christian, but even those of you who aren’t should know what’s right. The right way to vote is Bush.
The war is unjust if it results in the murder of innocent babies.
Do you support the murder of innocent babies? If you think the murder of innocent babies is bad you might want to consider opposing the war (slid around that whole is/ought thing… woohaa!)
Actually as I read your post I realized that you have to be joking. I applaud you, I have argued the same way in the past.
Kudos.
You say there is a price for freedom, but then your on the anti-freedom party.
The rebublican party makes laws about when people can drink, what people can smoke, what kind of research our doctors can do…
Your worried about people getting money for lying on a couch, but what do you think Buch’s CEO cronies do all day long? I’ll tell you what they do, the lonunge about or play golf, with their saudi buisness parteners working out how to make the most money per life lost in Iraq.
Republicans also seem to do all they can to produce more homeless people that they then want to call lazy slackers. My college in maryland, where many inner city kids go to get engeneering degrees at low cost, has recived two tuition increases from the time we got a GOP govener.
And don’t think for one half of a quarter of a minute that Bush is a Christian. Christians have scruples and morals, Bush has neither. He uses lip-service to God to increase his voteing block.
Don’t think that the Republican party is the party of christians either. Many many reverands in this country support the Democratic party, seeing the values of Chairty, and Loveing ones neighbor, more important than haveing the police enforce Bibleical law which should really be an internal church matter. Unless you think we should have a theorcracy, in which case the election shouldn’t matter, as one would need to incite revolution.
Hello Seeker. Your ignorance is of a level I have not seen in any ILP member since Warrior Monk. I’m sorry if you don’t know the significance of that last sentence, but anyone who has been around for any length of time knows it is an insult; perhaps the worst insult I could pay a forum member.
I’ve been civil to you in the past Seeker–because I feel bad for you. I know what it’s like to be brainwashed by conservative ideas…and to be unable to write coherently because of it. I could generate calm, rational criticism of everything you’ve just written, but that doesn’t seem to work on you. Besides, I think Dev930 has given the most eloquent and appropriate rebuttle to your horseshit; there’s really nothing more to say.
See, there comes a point with people like you when you just have to throw up your hands and concede, “screw it; this kid will never listen to reason.” And that’s the point at which I take out my electronic flame-thrower (which is really quite a benign weapon by the way; unlike you and Mr Vag Hair, I don’t have to resort to violence to appease my political frustrations). I reached that point right about when you said,
Now, I wanted to be offended when you called me a traitor, but then I realized two things:
a) you probably don’t know what the legal definition of treason IS (look it up dipshit).
b) even if I was bordering on treason, you are bordering on mental retardation. I ask you: which is worse?
Now I’m going to address some of your more sophisticated comments together here:
Let me reply to this as follows
The brown dog is chasing the grey cat. The grey cat is chasing the red ball. The blue smiley has green barf. You, Seeker, are very VERY special. Let us know when you graduate from 2nd grade so we can all congratulate you.
See when you get to 5th grade, you learn not to contradict yourself. Americans are not anti-American; that’s a contradiction because America simply IS Americans…it’s of the people, by the people and for the people; it IS the people. Now Americans ARE (the majority, I mean) anti-Vag Hair, and I think that’s what you’re referring to. But there are very good reasons to dislike female pubic hair: it’s messy, it often smells bad, it gets all in your mouth and you just want to spit it out. Or even better, shave it off and dispose of it in Crawford Texas.
Well, to be fair, I think it’s not until 6th grade that they teach you that Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism.
You got a lot to learn kid.
Seeker it is obvious from your post that You do not understand what it means to be an American. You are a Tory, son. You follow rules. You are not an american. You do not follow in the proud, honorable and virtuous tradition of the Sons of Saint Tammany. You are a hack Post-awakening evangelical follow the strong man “Christian” sheep and you are not worthy to be called an American. Read more history and come back when you can do that Most American of things, think for yourself.
Do not fuck with the Cybernetic Democrats, you rule following servile Tory kid.