World Savior?
The guy who finally maxed out interfering wars and capitalist greed?
Not trying to be snide.
Just curious
history will be kinder to him than his last few approval ratings
The Spanish Inquisition would have been kinder than his last few approval ratings.
As to intrusive wars - I think we peaked with Vietnam, but even that record might not hold for long.
And even capitalist greed has been worse - the Robber Barons, the Twenties and the Eighties (think S & L). Not to mention Britain in the Nineteenth Century. The slave trade is an oldie but goodie, as well.
It won’t help Bush that his VP was Satan, though.
In my opinion Bush by nature is an apologetic image.
The innocent all american. Righteous through and through.
The thing about history is it only gets recorded by the winners. So if we continue down our current road and stay the course, it’s likely the negative stigma will recede over time.
But imagine if we turned the government upside down and laid everything out in plain day…
Is bush actually a criminal? it depends on who you ask these days, but if he was, and we did turn the government upside down, some say he would come off no better than napolean or dare i say, hitler.
Which brings me back to his image. Bush is an innocent type; not really that much of a mastermind. Regardless of what happens i believe our opinion of him will steadily increase…
Well, Nixon bounced back a little on the strength of his China policy. But Herbert Hoover…notsomuch.
Nixon is still a cliche.
When Iraq crumbles, things will get worse for Bush.
Winners do like to point out the losers.
Still wouldn’t mind having a beer with the guy.
yea the damn crook
You make a good point about Iraq, but it’s still a variable. They might become a total policed state in which case America will have its oil (assuming america is behind the government), and then we might expect bush to be hailed as a builder of nations…
If it crumbles Bush will indeed have lost… depending on who you ask…
If Iraq crumbles then Bush will have accomplished what he said he set out to do, which was to eliminate a terrorist threat in the middle east. Also if Iraq crumbles there will be no profit, which will be the real loss…
You also make a good point about winners pointing out losers. I am convinced that the anti bush media is allowed to thrive after the second election simply because they no longer care about getting re-elected. I am also convinced that when the next election comes around, the old guy, the loser, is villainized in order to make the new guy look good.
They take things pretty seriously when it comes to history. The nation cannot have blood on its hands afterall… not too much…
Villainize the enemy and idolize our own.
There are some very credible historians asserting that Abraham lincon was actually a very racist person.
they assert that he only freed the slaves in order to save the union, and apparantly has said "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."
.
No that i’m, arguing this, but if it’s true then it paints a sad picture of the ways in which the government exerts control over the population.
kind of an unpatriotic feeling it gives you…
i would probably pull a “jigsaw” on him if i had the chance, though i know i would feel bad later…
I thought it was cool that Bush had Darth Vader working for him.
Funny story behind vader. The original voice was not very cool at all.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBtr9bbPEc[/youtube]
The full deluge of the puppet/Bush/crony sunami has yet to sweep over us.
The capitalist world will never be the same again.
More vague doomsday prophesy.
Do you think its bush’s fault? or are you more of the mind that past policy mistakes and Saddam’s long history in Iraq set stage for fracture and that jihadism/hell was well on its before the coalition entered? just curious!
Yes and No.
Yes, the death knell of a failed capitalist philosophy and a period of extreme hardship for the poorest of us.
Followed by the dawn of a new and more sustainable human contract.
In this sense Bush is the doomsday harbinger of a dying Age. A Savior in the negative sense.
As a prophecy I may be vague about the timing - but not about the evolving force for a mass change of direction.
That is inevitable.
Okay, but why is it inevitable? What present factors determine this? How do they interrelate? How can the porest of us (in the entire world) get any poorer? They ar subsistence, now.
It is my conviction that the evolution of human consciousness is an on-going event.
Everything in our present behavior underlines our immaturity. Promiscuity, divorce, gambling with the market, fast cars, fast women, playing nuclear roulette. It goes go on and on. It is inevitable that we will and must grow up and achieve a more responsible attitude of adulthood.
Some 200 million westerners HAVE grown up. They are no longer anchored on narrow national aims and religious bigotry. They are responsible parents. They are ontologists, globalists - looking down the road for a more sustainable human contract.
The very poorest on the planet are already starving to death. The advanced nations are now on the line. Unemployment is projected by some economists to reach 15%. Under-employment will go over 30%.
10% verges on system collapse and we are almost there right now. The drain on everybody is exponential. We already have entire communities in the US who are at 25% unemployed. As all those millions of unemployed families start drawing on the system, for food, heath, shelter as they loose their homes and cars etc., the economic sunami will sweep over all of us. City economies are already failing. So are State economies. More and more thousands are joining the ranks of the needy every day. What is to stop it?
Even if Obama injects a one trillion dollar stimulus package each year over the next four years, all it will do is hold off the inevitable. The stark evolutionary fact is that capitalism has reached as far as it can go. It is at the end of its era of usefulness. It functioned very well in the era of nation building in an untapped New World milieu that fed itsef and the Old World. Those easy resources are now used up. Capitalism has no place in a global milieu. You cannot extract the necessary profits in order to sustain that ideology indefinitely. Just as we could not sustain a farm-based economy as our population exploded, so too can we not now sustain capitalist exploitation. We have to move to our next stage of evolutionary development. It has to be based on sustainable planet management. The New Age ethic is global stewardship - custodianship, not ownership and the vast waste of bureaucratic management, policing and armies that is required to sustain its artificial legality.
Our entire economic system is artificial. There is no real need for us to be in this dire situation. We have the brains, technology, resources, the need and tens of millions looking for and willing to work to affect a mass change of direction - but not the will. Our minds remain indoctrinated with the ideology that only money can change things. When in fact it is now the artificial barrier that is holding back everything. We have to train and focus our children in a new way
I agree with part of m&m statements.
Faust: Okay, but why is it inevitable?
MM: It is my belief that the evolution of human consciousness is an on-going event.
K: no evidence of this in any way shape or form.
F: What present factors determine this?
[/quote]
MM: Everything in our present behavior underlines our immaturity. Promiscuity, divorce, gambling with the market, fast cars, fast women, playing nuclear roulette. It goes go on and on. It is inevitable that we will and must grow up and achieve a more responsible attitude of adulthood.
K: Again, no evidence of this “growing up” that I can see.
F: How do they interrelate?
MM: Some 200 million westerners HAVE grown up. They are no longer anchored on narrow national aims and religious bigotry. They are responsible parents. They are ontologists, globalists - looking down the road for a more sustainable human contract.
K: Now I am starting to agree. We do have a portion of the population starting to think in longer and more sustainable terms.
F: How can the poorest of us (in the entire world) get any poorer? They ar subsistence, now."
MM: The very poorest on the planet are already starving to death. The advanced nations are now on the line. Unemployment is projected by some economists to reach 15%. Under-employment will go over 30%.
10% verges on system collapse and we are almost there right now. The drain on everybody is exponential. We already have entire communities in the US who are at 25% unemployed.
K: Not sure how one gets 10% as the number before the system collapses. As an amateur economist, I know that
we have gone through 10% unemployment before. Unemployment is not an leading indicator, it is a trailing indicator,
it tells us where we have been, not where we are or where we are going.
MM: Even if Obama injects a one trillion dollar stimulus package each year over the next four years, all it will do is hold off the inevitable. The stark evolutionary fact is that capitalism has reached as far as it can go. It is at the end of its era of usefulness. It functioned very well in the era of nation building in an untapped New World milieu that fed itsef and the Old World. Those easy resources are now used up. Capitalism has no place in a global milieu. You cannot extract the necessary profits in order to sustain that ideology indefinitely. Just as we could not sustain a farm-based economy as our population exploded, so too can we not now sustain capitalist exploitation. We have to move to our next stage of evolutionary development. It has to be based on sustainable planet management. The New Age ethic is global stewardship - custodianship, not ownership. y
K: Totally agree until you said “new age”. It is really about a new paradigm shift, similar to the one that shifted at the beginning
of the modern era with copernican revolution.
MM: Our entire economic system is artificial. There is no real need for us to be in this dire situation. We have the brains, technology, resources and the need to affect a mass change of direction - but not the will. Our minds remain indoctrinated with the ideology that only money can change things. When in fact it is now the artificial barrier that is holding back everything. We have to train and focus our children in a new way"
K: Ah, that is the rub. For to train and focus our children, we need a new ideology, a new road map that is past, present and future.
An ideology such as Christianity, an ideology that tells us where we have been, where we are and where we are going.
communism was one such modern attempt. As Nietzsche puts it, we need a new legislator, a new morality.
How to create a morality without God. The modern problem, and one that Nietzsche failed.
Kropotkin
The US labor force is currently 138.5 million workers.
14 million workers and their dependent families out of work represents roughly one third of the population, needing food, shelter, health. No economic system can sustain that. The effect is two-fold. It does not benefit from their earnings and has to dip into its own reserves to keep them alive.
13% unemployed takes us over the edge. It is full system collapse
Not for long and not with a population the size we have now.
I does not matter how you want to look at it. We are dead in the water anyway.n.
I have done exactly that over the past 20 years. Psyche Genetics may not be perfectly articulated, one man can only do so much - but it is the closest thing we have to a complete over-view of our entire past, present and future currently in existence. Nietzsche went down the wrong road. He was looking at our weaknesses, not our strengths.
During the great depression, we suffered over 20% unemployment rate and
for a period of 7 years or so.
Now granted we did come close to being overwhelmed,
but it didn’t happen and that is the best instance of
your scenario.
I don’t forsee double digit unemployment for very long, maybe 2 years or so.
Kropotkin
I don’t know whether to say I hope you are right and I am wrong or vise verse.
I certainly do not want to see others unnecessary suffering
But on the other hand I do not want to see the recovery end up in business as usual.
Personally I would rather suffer.
Here is what I think should happen.
In the second year of his presidency Obama will see that trillion dollar stimulus packages to not work.
He will then have to completely ignore all concerns about deficits and go beyond just keeping the wolf from the door. It is possible at that stage, with enough people suffering, for him to declare an all-out sustainable war on poverty. He will get the Okay to go the whole hog. Print enough money to ensure 100% employment and put the entire country to work for the next decade in a complete make-over of the infrastructure and the way we do business.
The net worth of American assets is in the thousands of trillions of dollars. So borrowing hundreds of trillions on improvements to those assets will have a positive affect on the global economy and get everybody else doing the same thing.
MM - Oh. Your conviction. That’s not very convincing, but if it does the trick for you, it has that very limited utility.
When was it ever different? It’s difficult to establish a process without linear development.
There have always been responsible parents. And irresponsible ones. I still fail to see a process. Could you tell me who these people are?
'Twas ever thus.
If you know history the way you claim to, you know that this is cyclicar.
But we have sen all this before. Many times.
You’ve got it backwards - the population exploded because we moved away from a farm-based economy. This is not an argument, it’s a series of assertions.
I have a manner of appearing assertive. But that is a matter of style, not content. In any case. my assertions are soundly based and I will pit them against anybody,at any time, line by line.
I would say that it yours that is not an argument. It is a series if refutations.