Can dogs think phenominally?

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
513

I’ll be honest, I can’t, for the moment, but than both, where the dogs learned from the man, taking what they could of how their training helped them to advance by trial and error, kind of like through a maze structured, reward system, while the man learned more of how dogs reacted(thoughts that they incorporated- vis. the sum of accumulated signs and signals.

And presuming the man had no lexperience with similar studies with rats, although he may have had, he may not be able to judge the rate of learning behaviorally and phenomenologically that accumulation.

Or, maybe this type of dog’s philosophical syntheses most probably was beyond his capacity.

In interactive activity between cats and dogs, apart from a planned out study, a more intuitive approach to your question, can develop.

Gut level feeling her approaches the answer: it’s hard to say, and rather hard to decide.

514

It’s obvious enough that dogs have a vocabulary. My dog knows “chicken foot”; “pigs ear” and “Kong”.
When we say these words out of context she can be triggered. Often we have to resort to French, but she has learned oreille de cochon. When King Kong was on tv she was triggered by the word.
A Kong is a rubber dog toy into which you can put peanut butter or a banana etc…

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BUT Is this “thinking phenomenally”?

As with so many of the threads in this supposedly philosophical forum, no one has bothered seriously to define what they mean by “phenominally” (sic)

515

Dogs are no different to humans when they want something. The only difference is the way they do it.
Just so with humans the level of communication and intelligence depends largely on the dog’s background, how socially aware they are, if they trust you and how far they are willing to go with you.

I have four dogs, different breeds and ages, different backgrounds.

All are rescue dogs and all come with baggage in some form or another, whether it was abuse or neglect.

These dogs take time to win over (as would any human being who had been subjected to the lives they had endured) but ultimately trust has been gained, and distinct personalities have emerged.

The breeds are Papillon, (1) Staffordshire Bull Terriers, (2) and one Jack Russell.

The Jack Russell (10 yo) is by far the most intelligent and can communicate with her eyes, ie comes up to you, paws on your knees and looks straight into your eyes. “Do you want to go outside”? Yes! her eyes and body respond. She has not been socialised, (I have had her only six months) and she barks non stop when out on a walk at people, dogs, trees, rabbits, bicycles) it is kinda of embarrassing when people walk by and give that look, (what is wrong with that dog), we just keep walking.

The staffies communicate verbally by barking, (10 and 7 yo) (non stop until you listen to them) I want to come in, I want to go out, (a.m. pee time) I want my dinner, (always around 4 pm) I want to go for a walk, any time of day, but are most content snoring away nearby.

The Papillon is now getting on, (12 yo) he came from a terrible environment, hence is not friendly to the rest of society, except his home buddies and his priority is food and rest. His chosen friend in the family is the Jack Russell, distances himself from the staffies (both female).

These dogs, because of their deprived backgrounds, probably would communicate even more, but bad treatment in the past has made them overly cautious about people and unfamiliar environments.

They may not “speak” as humans do, but certainly their language and communication is obvious, be it food, walking, being warm or cool and wanting time with the person they love and trust.

No different to humans really.

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516

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IwGb_KOihnc

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517

If wanting is “doing” and dogs “do” it differently then they want differently by definition.

518

Wanting is not necessarily doing. Otherwise delayed gratification would be impossible.

Dogs can delay gratification, or they would be untrainable.

519

I think what Meno meant is ‘conceptually’, though he is smart enough to have written that in the first place. The video I posed shows, I think, that a dog can think conceptually, but on the other hand its scheming against the cat seems to have been the result of elaborate training. Both animals were trained - I think it requires a great deal more will power to train a cat than to train a dog.

520

I am currently replying to my official answer to this thread.

And here is what Meno meant by phenomenal thinking:

521

Can you please link to it again? I’m having a hard time finding it. (nm found it, replied below)

522

I wouldn’t doubt if the dog was trained to put the toy on the lid (to appear motivated to keep the cat in there). But that would be pretty funny if they weren’t.

523

Likely. I saw that it was a training channel later on.

So… not a proof that dogs can think. They’re conscious, and they respond to stimuli such as words, they can associate stimuli with qualia, but perhaps they don’t reason.

524

There was this video that showed that a dog discriminated amongst toys to find the one that had an unfamiliar name other than the names with which the dog was already familiar.

I think that shows evidence of reasoning.

I could not find the video with a quick search, unfortunately.

525

I get this, but instinct yet may be developed rather then experienced as a configuration, a map, as it were within intrinsic reaction-action channels, that still, has to be thought (shown) by parents. The specia developing all the way from the most primitive to the more sophisticated has to ‘evolve’ in as much as the links could adaptive imitate , and recall in and through from inception, through developmental parallels. This is verified by the human embryo showing all subordinate forms of differing species which correlate the evolutionary principles along the way physiologically.

The spatial configuration between these correlations may develop duration through seeing instinct as not purely ‘instinctive’ but as a hypothetical possibility of supposing the idea of increasing duration between the unpercived intervals which can not be noticed by species such as, different minute changes that species pass through.

The instinctive levels may not be noticed , because , perhaps , dogs can not degrees to the appropriate level of pre-caption, on account of their very slow cognitive development that is outpaced by their physical development.

Finally, man outpaces his physical development because his cognitive changes are forced to evolve at a faster pace, This can account for man being able to stand on legs, whereas dogs can only for a shorter time.

The very basic transformation of a sacral configuration is that caves were the beginning where two legged creatures came to a virtual crisis in their life, when four legged creatures of all kinds, more ferocious had to overcome existential challenges where standing up afforded more phenomenal awareness, (if they were to get out of the cave). This reduction to be entrenched in a dark cave , had to be compensated for by qualitative means.

The reduction to living in more easily defended, hidden spaces, extended the means by which more awareness of pure instinctual measurement of time would develop the necessary tools for the survival of the species.

Just a thought. Elephants are said to be ‘smarter’ than dogs because, their safety did not require them to go underground.

An objection may be raised here about rhinos, are they intelligent in the same sense as elephants and if not, why not?

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Are Rhinos Intelligent? How to Train a Rhino?

January 15, 2022 by Team Animalia Facts

Rhinoceroses are smart animals. They might have a small brain compared to the size of their bodies. But that doesn’t restrain them from being emotional or logical. Their decisions most often seem very logical if they are thought through.

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Are Rhinos Smart? A Detailed Look At Rhino Intelligence

](Are Rhinos Smart? A Detailed Look At Rhino Intelligence - Berry Patch Farms)

527

Jack Russells and Fox Terriers are really smart.

My Jack Russell has favorite toys, some to play with during the day and two particular toys she sleeps with at night. You may think she is asleep and go to move them away from her but her eyes open immediately and she growls, dont touch.

There is a fairly large basket of different toys, all shapes and sizes.
If I say get a particular toy (and name it) she will tip the basket over and sort through all the toys until that toy I asked for is found and she will bring it back to me.

This is only one example there are many different scenarios this dog responds to.

On reading this she sounds like a circus dog.

I promise you there has been no training involved. LOL

528

I bet you have a huge third nose, Meno. Just a hunch.

529

Yes agreed, but the rhino underperforms the elephant, and the difference in temporal succession doesen’t justify the violation of the Deus ex machina pulled out of existence by a mere tryst, as a form of the thin man pulling an idea out of a vat.

The stretching metaphor unlike real elongation, will not snap at and beyond certain limits of endurance.

It’s premordial and preconstructed not reconstructed , de- engineered to sniff out what is not really invisible.

Can’t reduce it fraudulently , as Jung could not see errors to block the vision of vat’s below the emperor’s clothes.

530

dogs and cats are smarter than most humans

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531

…it’s the silence, isn’t it?

532

It’s deafening right, but then with the failure of sight and sound, well dogs do have a superior ability to sense something rotten, in Denmark of all places?