I am so sick and tired of this convo:
Me: What you did was wrong.
You: Dont judge me.
Me: I am not judging you.
You: Yes you are!
Me: No, I am judging what you do, but not you.
You: What’s the difference, you are judging me!
Is the problem in the language? Do we need various words for judgement? If so, can someone fix it here and now, once and for all please, thank you.
Ask yourself, can you judge a person in any way other than by what it is that they do?
Judgement may be physical or mental or both. For example, you can judge someone’s actions to be right or wrong, and you can also judge someone based on how they think. You can even go so far as to judge someone’s mental state at the time of physically acting.
But tell me, do you really know anything about a person besides what they do? Is that not what defines that person in your mind?
If you know nothing about a person other than what they do then there is nothing else to judge, thus judging a person and judging what a person does becomes the same thing.
Not a language problem, more of a psychological one.
lets just face the facts. people get pissed off when you tell them they are wrong,regardless if they are or not.they would get less pissed though if you say:in my opinion,your action/though is wrong. good luck with all that then…
What he said… I always win that argument. because in truth what you do, and what you say, is what defines you.
But I read over that again and it actualy is a language problem. What if you are intentionally scrutinizing an action of a person. Does that mean you are judging that person or what they did.
By Kant’s view these two would be different because that person might’ve had a good intention but by some circumstances his actions were bad. So judging that persons actions is incorrect.?
Put as simply as possible:
The person complaining at being judged is a weak fool, someone who would rather descend into hypocritical relativism (i.e. ‘you are judging me, which is wrong, but in saying this I am judging you’) than actually stand up for themselves. They are in the wrong. Judgement is basically inevitable, if your pipes burst you do not phone the pizza dude…
Because people are told that their beliefs are ‘their own, unique and individual’ they identify with them. Now of course the vast majority of people’s beliefs are things that they’ve picked up from elsewhere and calling them the result of a ‘free choice’ is nothing but hopeful codswallop. But it does have the rather unpleasant and tiresome consequence of people defending to the point of nonsense or contradiction beliefs that they’ve picked up from other people and only maintain due to perceived relations with other people. All the while claiming that ‘as an individual’ they have the ‘right’ to believe whatever they like.
Indeed, nothing has been more destructive to the advancement of human intellectual life (and I mean the whole kaboodle, science, philosophy, theology, history and so on) than the notion of being able to believe whatever one likes. ‘What, you mean my beliefs are all based on false ideas? Nevermind, I can think what I like’. If one does not exclude (in some sense or other) certain ideas, certain possibilities, on the basic grounds of them being too stupid for contemplation (an example might be ‘inflatable churches for rural communities’) then one will simply spend ones time, like a centrist think tank, trying to account for all the possibilities out there.
There’s an answer for you, do with it what you will.
The irony is that the person saying, “don’t judge me,” is being extremely judgmental in that they are ordering you to maintain a no judgment rule. They are additionally suggesting that you are being small-minded and prejudiced. That description really fits them best though, as the evidence indicates that they don’t want to hear any feedback and believe that their way is the best way. That attitude speaks to massive selfishness, of course.
Does it though?
If not wanting to be judged is wrong, then is taking it upon yourself to judge someone else at all wrong, or selfish? I could see how this might be so if one is trying to impose his/her morals on somebody else, as if their beliefs were any better than the one being judged.
edited
i think the best way is the sokrates way, with a retorical question. But then you need to be like really smart.
WW,
People are judgment machines. We can’t drink a cup of coffee without mentally evaluating it. It’s what we do.
So, even the act of saying, “I don’t like judgments,” is indeed a judgment. It’s a far more sweeping judgment than any other in fact. It’s extremely controlling as well because it places a demand of silence on everyone about every topic.
My suggestion to those that don’t like input from others is to shut up about your business and keep your life a secret. If someone tells me that they’re going to get a tattoo of an anus on their forehead you can expect my opinion, because you just put a burden on me.
wow really liked that, “you just put a burden on me”.
but come on theres a diffrent between making an opinion and a jugement
where as an opinion is a feeling, while jugdements an opinion in a moral context ?!
Thanks,
Yes, I’m assuming that the “judgment” is really a complex opinion based on ideas of right and wrong, rather than just a comment such as, “you are stupid,” or “you are bad,” and so forth.
Burden:
I was just telling my wife about a good friend of mind that everyone would tell their troubles to. The burden for her after awhile was so great that she would start spilling her guts to people and then others would get mad at her. Really, her friends were being selfish with her in that they were expecting her to keep all of these heavy secrets.
For me, if you tell me about the anus tattoo, then I believe that it’s an ethical obligation on my part to point out the harm that it can do. As mentioned, I believe that if you don’t want human interaction then don’t interact with me.
edited
WW,
Well one can always give their judgment of another’s judgment and provide a rationale for your decision. One can also avoid telling the judgmental about their choices, as I mentioned. The bottom line is that you can avoid being judged if you want to.
Meanwhile, I think that bible bit wasn’t meant to address being confronted about common foibles, such as getting a tattoo on your forehead.
I’d start a new thread about this but this discussion suffices for the point being made. Whatismore I told Adler that I’d give him a run down of Nietzsche’s notion of the Last Man.
Re-read the whole prologue to Zarathustra, wherein Nietzsche describes the doctrine of the overman and describes his notion of the last man.
The overman seeks the beyond, he seeks to make his highest dream his aim, to stretch and tear himself from perceived limitations…
whereas the last man:
The last man seeks only the perpetuation of his existence, never seeking to risk, never trying to overcome. He works, feeds and tries to keep warm.
I like this. It’s similar to Derrida’s ‘a madness must watch over thinking’…
I thought that simply citing a couple of chunks of text was the best explanation, I imagine they you’re capable of understanding all this but I’ll happily discuss any queries or confusions. I’ve got a lot of fun out of this topic, you may have also come across Fukuyama’s ‘End of History’ text which makes use of Nietzsche’s idea, or more accurately a misinterpretation of Nietzsche’s idea.
One must learn the self inflating quality of judging without even the intent in order to claim a clear conscience. 
someoneisatthedoor,
That was a good point and I can see how the “last man” concept fits into our other discussions as well. Thanks for the post.
So, the person/culture that doesn’t want to hear any new info is doomed to stagnation.
Of course Nietzsche would probably argue that we all just repeat everything anyway but whereas the last man is ‘doomed to repeat himself’ the overman embraces this repetition, or at least acts as though he’d be happy to repeat every moment of his life over and over.
At least, that’s what I’ve got from Zarathustra. The bombastic language makes it a little hard to follow in places.
Yes, I read that one about twenty years ago, but got a lot more out of his works and their terse style.
It’s interesting because the “last man” concept mirrors the discussion going on about animal rights in a way. The human that seek to move beyond their nature is a lot like an animal, and I suppose that is one reason why we don’t have much respect of animals or people that act like them.
Yes there is a burden factor. As a Christian, you cannot tell me that you want to have an orgy and not expect me to say something like, “Oh, I don’t think you should do that.” How could I not say that? Especially if you were someone close to me.
Anyway, so it seems that judgement is inevitable. If I walk into a bar and see a big greasy guy wearing leather and I turn the other way, I am making a judgement. Perhaps that judgement is wrong and perhaps it is mean, but I have to make it. It is just as likely I could have walked over to him and have had him do something awful to me. We cannot live life without making judgements on a day to day basis and to be a skeptic and say, “Well, if I jump out my window, maybe I won’t die” is stupid and detrimental.
I digress, perhaps to judge someone’s actions is still judging them but sometimes it must be done.
So then what did Jesus mean when he said not to judge others? That’s what I want to know? Did he mean not to judge the fate of their soul? Not to judge them outside of their actions, which we have concluded is still judging them anyway. I don’t know.