Can something exist outside of time?

Can something exist outside of time?

If such thing existed:

If something exists outside of time, how would we be able to identify that it exists?

How would we know it was outside of time?

In what way would such an outside of time object manifest itself without being inside of time?


Through logic, logical thinking.

It never changes. Time is merely the measure of change. “Outside of time” MEANS that it never changes.




Mutcer is “outside of time”, the very example he was seeking. :sunglasses:

How would we apply logic to such a thing? What sensory devices would we use to confirm it existed?

It never changes. Time is merely the measure of change. “Outside of time” MEANS that it never changes.
Give me your best example of something that never changes.

1) One of the most obvious physical examples to you (due to your faith in your scientists) is the speed of light in a minimal vacuum. That speed never changes = “outside of time”.

2) That speed can never change because of an eternal principle (also “out side of time”). That principle, for complicated reasons, is that “nothing can progress beyond infinity”. All concepts and principles are eternal, “outside of time”. But that doesn’t mean that a concept or principle cannot be misrepresented or its name changed. Semantic games with words don’t change the reality (another principle “outside of time”), merely how much you might hate it.

3) Another physical example would be the fact that the inside of a box is always smaller than the outside of that same box. Again, semantic games can be played so as to convince naive people otherwise, but the reality never actually changes = “outside of time”.

4) Another more personal example is that Mutcer never changes his Christian hatred and stories. He can pretend a lot, lie, and play those same games, but the reality never changes = “outside of time”.

OK, I see what you mean. So another example of something that never changes would be the mathematical equation of 1+1=2. Correct?

Please explain - how if these things never change it therefore must follow that they exist outside of time.

As long as no one plays with the definitions of the symbols involved, “1+1=2” will never change.

Time is the measure of change. If nothing changes concerning something, there is no time for that thing. Thus it is said that it is “outside of time”. Concepts and principles, for example, have nothing to do with changing or time. The idea of a given size of circle is always that given size of circle, even though people might start calling it something else.

Hasn’t physics pretty much confirmed that time is a dimension and that reality extends far beyond the four dimensions we know of? I thought they were talking about their being like 11 the last time I checked.

That extra-dimensional talk has never been “Science”. That is what they call “pseudo-science” wherein they stretch their imagination and try to find something interesting to say in order to keep people mused and busy.

A “dimension” is merely a mental concept used to help build a mental map (much like saying “North to South”). Anything that extends out of range in both directions can be called a “dimension”, such as the frequency of light. They chose to say that time is in a dimension so that the mathematics becomes relatively simple, using matrix mathematics. They “treat” it as though it were just like a length dimension because time can be calculated infinitely forward or backward, so why not just think of it as a dimension. It has nothing to do with reality one way or another. It is just a convention.

All of these kinds of confusions is why people, especially scientists, need to understand the philosophy of ontology and epistemology. Quantum Physics just goes wild with all kinds of irrational absurdities in the name of “science” because people can’t tell the difference and it allows them to play like they are super intelligent to the unsuspecting masses.

How about this: The fact that George Washington was a president is something that will never change. Correct?

So you’re saying any facts which don’t change exist outside of time. If 1+1=2 today and 1+1=2 tomorrow, has time passed between when 1+1 equaled 2 yesterday and 1+1 equaled 2 today? If so, then how could you still say that 1+1=2 exists outside of time?

What evidence is there that time doesn’t move in any direction other than forward?

Well, as long as you believe in historical facts, that would be correct. The past can never change.

Time doesn’t pass for the equation “1+1=2”. It passed for everyone else.

Boethius" argument–God, being atemporal, had to intersect man’s linear history at a point in time. The vertical intersection with the horizontal is the sign of the cross.

Does time pass while the equation 1+1=2 remains true?

Please provide me with your best example of something that doesn’t exist outside of time.

Does time pass while the equation 1+1=2 remains true?

Please provide an example of how it could be observed that 1+1=2 is true without time passing?

Please provide me with your best example of something that doesn’t exist outside of time.

Do you know the difference between the real being (existence) and the ideal being (essence)? The real being is spatiotemporal, the ideal being (essence) lacks temporality. According to Platon and other philosophers the ideal being (essence) is the true, the actual real being, while the so-called “real” being is merely the appearance, the illusoriness.

If our definitions merely accepted spatiotemporality as the property of being, then being without temporality would not be possible by defintion. If our definitions accepted that temporality is not required for being, then we being without temporality would be possible by definition.

What about the essence? Does essence also have affect? Do both the real being and the ideal being have affect? Don’t forget: According to Platon and other philosophers the ideal being is the true, the actual real being.

Some physicists (seriously) say “1+1=1.9…~” because of the so-called “mass defect” (cp. E=MC²).

Seems like kind of a silly question. Wasn’t it true yesterday?

Nothing can be observed except by those changing in time. Observation requires time. Without time passing, there is no change. Thus if it was ever true, without change, it must always be true.

Everything you see around you. All mass and energy are changing at all times, some merely much slower than others, just as various trees.

“Essence” is the concept of a thing, and idealism, thus not physical. The concepts have their realm of existence and the physical has its realm of existence. We have been through this before.

That is an example of them playing with the definitions. It is untrue that 0.99999… = 1.0, but that doesn’t stop them from believing it and stating it as true on Wiki.

“We have been through this before” probably means “no one else than you and I have been through this before”.

And that is a bad sign, at least then, if it is not explained that it has not very much to do with mathematics. It has very much to do with confusing the people, so that it becomes easier to reconvert science to religion.

I think some scientists understand the philosophy of economics very well. Put something about “no longer any need for god” in the title or more recently it seems something about “a universe created from nothing” in the title and you can sell alot of books. Preach to the choir and they will put their money in your collection plate. One’s theory doesn’t need to make any predictions that would allow it to be falsified like any real scientific theory requires, as long as it sounds good and sells books, it’s all good.