Can sounds influence people?

We know the spectrum of a child is much wider that that of an adult, is this because our brains learn that the extrema are of no practical use or because our ears become crappy?

Why does an LP sound better than an MP3 even though we can’t hear the superfluous frequencies?

Because MP3’s generally suck. Not all codecs are created equal- some are very poor. And most people tend to use way too much compression by going with a bitrate that’s far too low. Most people call 128 kbps “CD quality” but it most emphatically is not. Most encoders don’t even begin to sound transparent until you get up around 320 kbps, and even then acoustic music doesn’t sound right.

I’m not really a fan of MP3. For my purposes they’re unnecessary since storage has become relatively cheap. I’m also not really a fan of LPs either- surface noise drives me nuts, as does groove echoe and pre-echo.

I woudl add some sub-questions to this thread:

1/ do you think that in case different languages have different scales of sound (pitch) it can somehow infulence subliminally the users of that language?

2/ can the types of sound clusters (words consisting of consonants and vowels) such as names we hear and the words we use more frequently than other words inluence our mind, again somehow mysteriously - psychologically? Do I become a bit changed, a different person (suppose my name is Katherine) if they call me Cathy in some region, or by some people, and Cat elswhere, Kate still somewhere else, and Catherine in another country, Katarina, by the endless variations of the same name? Can my identity change? I know it sounds queer and far-fetched, but still, I have a strong suspicion it does work like that.

3/ I have asked a similar question on another thread but it always fascinates me - does the use ( ort hearing) of some sounds actively alter the reality? And if so, how is it related to our interpretation of that reality?
If I use the language with lots of “br” does it create any inherent qualities in me which make me different than if I used the language with lots of ul-la-lu" sounds? I mean long-term use.

What’s your take?

No, I think it depends on the certain person. No matter which language you use you can influence a group of people in a same way.

Yes, there is a theory for the letter-dependence in songs; for example many English ‘R’ letters in a song can make you arrogant or French ‘R’-letters can melt you [love influence] or many ‘L’ letters can do smth else (just an example from my experience). So there are singers - experts who use their knowledge to form special songs in order to construct a special-based song.

Probably not, I mean it could affect your moment mood and condition but not change the way you live or smth else. Also it is different for every person… There are people who are dependent even on the leaves rustling… So it’s function of the psychology, but I find the music ‘affecting’.

I was just thinking about how sound, specifically music, effects the mind. I thought for a moment that tonality could perhaps be understood as a kind of biological language spoken and understood by all organisms.

I figured that the only way to associate a minor note with an unpleasant feeling would be by examining the physical features of the sound and the way in which it ‘aggrevates’ the sensory organ and in turn the effect of the signal to the nervous system.

Is there some distinction between frequency, pitch and tone and the emotion the sound evokes?

I began to liken certain behaviors to certain chord progressions and note sequences. I could literally hear an attitude and a disposition in a song. Finally I came to the conclusion that the last fifty years of music and its evolution could be plotted into a kind of progressional development of psychology- each generation is the attitude of the music. I believe that a decline in artistic integrity in music began after the late seventies…right at the time capitalism and record industries were robust. The music today is, needless to say, absolute shit.

I think art is the dynamometer of our health. When we become lame in our artistic expression we reflect that in our intelligence. Just ask “Ice Pick,” or whoever that rapper guy is with the gat. Better yet, ask any one of the red-neck country western musicians, or one of the angry gothic dudes overdosed in distortion and reverb.

Now I know most of you are young peeps, probably listening to that shit. I don’t know what to tell you other than that it is your generation that is tragic, not you as an individual. I blame your parent’s politicans for allowing capitalism to flourish. Thus marks the end of days.

On that last note Detrop get some money together and go visit Europe. It’s a different scene.

Alright, while we’re at it, Ad, I want you to be my personal travel advisor.

Tell me what it would take to go to Amsterdam and live, not necessarily legally, and have a job ‘under the table’ in the construction industry. If not, how would a fella like myself stay over there for a year or two in a row?

I want to go but I don’t want to spend a gazillion dollars on visas and citizenships.

Is it possible?

Currently, my wife is in Europe on business, and she is the expert, so you will have to wait for the answer.

Personally, I am headed out of this country if possible. I want to live in a community.

Race ya!

Seriously though, I am about tired of American culture at this point in my life and if I don’t leave the east coast entirely, I might just leave the country.

I want adventure godammit! This monotony is killing me. I don’t want to work fourty-hours a week only to retire and suck my food through a straw. I must see the world. I must lay my head on every cranny and sleep in every field. I must swim in all the waters and eat the lucious fruit. I refuse to eat McDonalds for the rest of my life.

Yes, I’m right with you on it. However, I want to live in a friendly community and have lots of interactions with people. That is a form of adventure in my mind as of late, as I’ve had plenty of the other kinds.

In England I got high quality responses from at least someone when I went into any pub. Topics of conversation that started from nothing were always good. People seemed to be walking around with smiles. The cities were nice and artistic unlike the gray slab that I live in.

It’s geat and there’s a lot of socialism. I assume that’s because people like eachother.

I went from cheering on the US to thinking that I live in an anus.

Off/

Huh, it seems like the nightmare here is what you dream about… And the opposite ; ) detrop, here you won’t find yourself against such a problem - ‘boredom’ is unknown word in our dictionary… The fact that you go to your workplace and come back home without meeting someone who wants to beat you or if your boss gives you the salary is real adventure and so on… Most bulgarians dream about boring life where everything is easy… And Mc Donalds…

do you think that in case different languages have different scales of sound (pitch) it can somehow infulence subliminally the users of that language?

Yes. As an empirical linguist myself, I’m aware that all languages (both intonation and tonal) have unique peculiarities that not only affect the users’ mental schemes, but the culture itself as well.

can the types of sound clusters (words consisting of consonants and vowels) such as names we hear and the words we use more frequently than other words inluence our mind, again somehow mysteriously - psychologically?

Yes. It’s not that “mysteriously”, but most likely a combination of sensation and perception.

Do I become a bit changed, a different person (suppose my name is Katherine) if they call me Cathy in some region, or by some people, and Cat elswhere, Kate still somewhere else, and Catherine in another country, Katarina, by the endless variations of the same name? Can my identity change? I know it sounds queer and far-fetched, but still, I have a strong suspicion it does work like that.

Yes but perhaps not for a gigantic extent. But it might cause a butterfly effect. Of course, all of my responses are “imho”.

I have asked a similar question on another thread but it always fascinates me - does the use ( ort hearing) of some sounds actively alter the reality?

Yes. Psychoacoustic too can use illusions and it can, for some extent and in an outright bespoke way, alter one’s emotions in extreme forms with similar results.

And if so, how is it related to our interpretation of that reality?

Depends on each individual. For instance, the use of Ionian Major Mode (C more often than not) is largely used in children tunes. The reason being, melodies formed through that scale are somewhat optimistic and “natural”. But the use of those same archs in horror films has provoked that in some cases, a beautiful childish melody, is able to be used for dramatic purposes. Indeed, some years ago, my daughter asked me at 3 in the morning to sing her craddle song, and while I did so everything around me turned scary and mysterious.

If I use the language with lots of “br” does it create any inherent qualities in me which make me different than if I used the language with lots of ul-la-lu" sounds? I mean long-term use.

Yes but again not major effects unless they’re combined with other factors. No wonder, it’s the same case with music: a note doesn’t do anything unless it’s connected with others. In the case of dialectucal features, they do affect your body in some ways (e.g. the production of saliva is different for a person using a lot of “th” or the Japanese “z” than for an individual speaking non-Rhotic English), but those consequences are minimal unless they’re part of a big “machine”.

No, I think it depends on the certain person. No matter which language you use you can influence a group of people in a same way.

No way. But in that case it’s again a mixture of events: what language do you use, what language do they use (remember Nelson Mandela’s insights about that), etc.

I was just thinking about how sound, specifically music, effects the mind. I thought for a moment that tonality could perhaps be understood as a kind of biological language spoken and understood by all organisms.

Indeed, Ravens for instance have got their own language and social communities with “proffessions”.

I figured that the only way to associate a minor note with an unpleasant feeling would be by examining the physical features of the sound and the way in which it ‘aggrevates’ the sensory organ and in turn the effect of the signal to the nervous system.

Yes although there’s a significative part played there by historical memory (a completely different matter).

Is there some distinction between frequency, pitch and tone and the emotion the sound evokes?

Of course, and they’re - though very difficultly - scientifically measurable. It doesn’t mean that, for instance, Michael Ball can scientifically sing better or with more emotion than Sting. In each and everybody’s brain a different assortment of features (such the ones you mentioned) conclude in different sensations taking into account each own hormones, mood, association patterns, etc.

I began to liken certain behaviors to certain chord progressions and note sequences. I could literally hear an attitude and a disposition in a song. Finally I came to the conclusion that the last fifty years of music and its evolution could be plotted into a kind of progressional development of psychology- each generation is the attitude of the music.

Yes but of course it’s a very complicated (though valuable) topic. Mainstream music genres are more directly connected with vogue and visuals than ever. Therefore the “attitude” is focused, sometimes even more than on the music itself, on the lyrics, videos and fashion (e.g. punk crests, gothic clothing…).

I believe that a decline in artistic integrity in music began after the late seventies…right at the time capitalism and record industries were robust. The music today is, needless to say, absolute shit.

That’s the RP (Received Precept) with which I, personally, disagree. As I said before, the entire market is more focused on visuals, entertainment and controversies, but still there are people making good ridiculously under-rated pieces. Think of Green Day’s last album, well-played (note that most of Black Sabbath’s early work has bass mistakes here and there, for instance), well-sung, well-merged and with clever lyrics and melodies. Production is fantastic. But of course many people overlook it because it’s not Queen or Led Zeppelin.

I think art is the dynamometer of our health. When we become lame in our artistic expression we reflect that in our intelligence.

It depends on each individual. For some it’s like that indeed. For others, health can be reflected by driving. But you’re still right considering that in some cases and for some extent, driving, football or even maths might be considered “art” as well as music or theatre can be considered “science”. Those parameters are strictly individual imo.

Now I know most of you are young peeps, probably listening to that shit.

I remember back when I worked in Tokyo, I met a bloke who attributed young chaps’ dislike for blues in nowadays Shibuya and Harajuku areas, to their short age and the influence of (quoting) “worthless in-duh-viduals like Gwen Stephanie”. In my opinion, it’s impossible to narrow it down to only one big cause, instead of considering the option of it being a direct result of a mixture of many small features. Myself, I’m not very fond of blues, but it’s not related to age, race, beliefs or social rank; it’s merely a case of sensation a perception: whenever a recurring periodic outline blueprints my hearing and my brain receives the combination of tiresome rhythmic executions and instantly the axons at my vestibulocochlear nerve project the humdrum combination of 1st, minor 3rd, 4th, diminished 5th and minor 7th degrees, and the sequence remains with little or non alterations throghout one measure less than a baker’s dozen, my senses get the levels of Hydroxy-tryptamine in my body slowly lowered, which causes me angts and I gradually get unease. In other words, I’m not a blues fan because I find twelve-bar absobloodylutely dull and sometimes pentatonic scales brass me off.

I don’t know what to tell you other than that it is your generation that is tragic, not you as an individual.

I remember when my brother was a kid and I used to remind him about how my generation had been better: more brilliant superheroes, we had friends instead of nintendo, and we went to play football at the park instead of chatting via msn. But it’s relative to the individual. Each one of us lived in the age we must have. Imho of course.

I blame your parent’s politicans for allowing capitalism to flourish.

'Twas always thus. Only that now it’s more openly demonstrated.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I lived in Amsterdam Detrop. It’s a great city, especially if you can speak dutch. Even if you can’t speak dutch, everyone speaks English. It’s not that hard to get a holiday visa for 6 months, I think it’s fairly standard. If you want to work though you would have to have a working visa in Amsterdam, not that easy to get a work visa.

If you wanted to work in London, it’s not that hard to get a working holiday visa for the UK as an American I don’t think, you wouldn’t be allowed to work here without one, no-one will employ you, my sister owns a construction labour recruitment agency in London so if you could muster a working visa - really shouldn’t be too hard for an American, I could put you in contact.

Also it really depends on your age, on your adaptability. Moving to London isn’t as easy as it sounds and Ad makes it sound a lot more friendly than it is. People do not walk around with smiles on their faces (unless they’re drunk), people are not friendly here. As an American you will find it hard. The culture is something completely different. In Holland people are a lot softer. Also this city can be the lonliest place in the world.

A

I don’t know about Holland, but since I’m from the continent I can see such a GRAET differece.
Liquidangel is absolutely right with people in London. An it applies to the whole of England, it’s a different culture, these English. I’m staying not far from Lonon, in Luton and i guess it’s even worse here. People are far far from friendly or from what any normal person can imagine as friendly. i guess England is suffering fro paranoia from the mass if immigrants and it can be felt. Moreover, they are pretentious.
I’ve been her just 2 months but I’ve never felt so strange and bad in my life because of the atmosphere. No friendliness. no real friendliness just customer serveice grins and false smiles.
Sorry, I’m being cruetl, I do realise not individuals are like that and I know many nice people, I’m speaking of the cold that this country emits.

It will change Lenore. You just have to settle, it takes a while. It’s a process. You have to learn to embrace the culture, but it doesn’t happen over night. Everyone experiences this place as being very hard the first year and then during the second year, things begin to get easier, and then after a while it becomes difficult to leave because you begin to love it here. I love my home country very deeply but I really love being here too. It’s much easier now and in fact when I last went home, I really struggled to be there.

One really needs to make solid friendships, we all need support.

A

I have been to more countries, to Italy and other, but it did never feel like this anywhere else. You may be right, some people can get to like it, but after a year you’d love any other place three times as much. It’s not the country, it’s the inhabitants and their culture, habits… rules, most of all rules and autorities which make you feel as if one is totally unable to do anything independently. It shouts out it is a free country only to cover it is the opposite. It will try to persuade you there is no discrimination here but the way it goes is quite different.

Of course everything you say is true. Life is very controlled here. But that is only one perspective. You cannot know this country or its people after two months. You simply cannot. Reserve your judgements until you really understand these people. Afterall they are just people and in our hearts we are all the same, English, European, American, Indian, whatever…we’re all just people. When you can approach people as people you will begin to see something very different.

Also arriving in a new country where everything and I mean everything is approached differently can be tough. It is you who is experiencing the difficulty, not them.

This country has a gentleness bordering on Grace if you can allow yourself to see passed all the hardness…

A

Liquid,

Have you ever been to the US? The people in London are way more friendly and polite.

The other day in Philadelphia I warned a woman that was wearing high heels about a difficult to see patch of ice that a man just caused another man to hit the ground. She looked at me like I had a disease and gave me the, “huhhwhhhy arre yoou tALking to mehh!” valley girl look. I felt like tripping her after that.

Many Americans are both rude and stupid with no sense of curtsey and little content of mind.

No, I’ve never been to the States, but I can tell you haven’t lived here either. You can’t come here as a tourist and expect to know London. All very nice doing Central London, but go into the real heart of the place, you might not like what you see…

A