CAN YOU TRUST GOD TO PROTECT YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES???

[size=85]Cryin’ wont help ya,
prayin’ wont do ya no good
when the levee breaks
Mama you got to move

-Led Zeppelin,
“When the Levee Breaks”[/size]

The Law of Indiscriminate Absence Of Protection

The Law of indiscriminate absence of protection is a heuristic “law” which states:

That man is constantly at the mercy of inexorable forces that constantly threaten to impose suffering and death upon him without reason should circumstances permit; that morality and moral gravity is besides the point and meaningless in the face of actual death and man’s universal vulnerability to death; that there exists no supernatural or magical power capable of predictably and reliably protecting the individual (or if such power exists, the intention to utilize the power to even conditionally protect the individual is absent) from a heedless and uncaring universe, which respects neither the individual nor the value of the individual to others.

For those [b]with Judeo-Christian religious beliefs, the implications insinuated by LIAP are significant, as predictably the question arises that asks if God has an obligation to protect those who love and depend upon him for happiness, health, and safety (the common requests of prayer) from the LIAP. One can argue that the obligation must exist if the “goodness” of God even remotely resembles “goodness” as commonly understood by humans beings.

One can also argue that the individual possesses an inherent right to ask the following questions in light of the seeming lack of protection even of the faithful from suffering and death:

  1. What kind of God are humans dealing with, if God (and those humans who assume to “know” what God wants or why God does x or y) perceives that there is something “good” or “right” in the refusal to reliably and predictably protect the faithful from the LIAP in the here and now?

  2. Why are the faithful not protected from LIAP in this life?

  3. Why shouldn’t the faithful be protected from LIAP in this life?

  4. What reason does one have to pray to God for the safety and happiness of oneself and one’s loved ones in this world if the faithful are not protected from LIAP? Why bother?[/b]

5. Is God someone you can depend upon to protect you and your loved ones?

6. If so, are there necessary conditions that must be met in order for God to predictably and infallibly protect you and your loved ones? If so, what are the conditions?

For example, consider the response of the father of a victim of the December 9, 2007 New Life Church shooting (the rampage ceased when the assailant was mortally wounded by church security guard Jeanne Assam) to an arguably loaded question King presents during a Larry King Live December 10, 2007 interview:

KING: [b]Joining us now on the phone is Tom Johnson. His daughter Tiffany one of the two people killed early Sunday at the Youth With A Mission Center in Arvada, Colorado.

Tom, our sincere condolences on the loss of Tiffany.

How did you learn of this?[/b]

TOM JOHNSON, DAUGHTER TIFFANY KILLED SUNDAY AT MISSION CENTER: …I heard of it at about 2:00 – 2:30 in the morning Minnesota time from my wife. And she was being transported to the hospital, talking to the ambulance driver and telling – apparently telling the description of the assailant. And at the hospital, she passed away.

KING: Did she talk to you while in the ambulance?

JOHNSON: She did not.

KING: How is everybody dealing with this? How is your wife dealing with it? How are friends, how is the family?

JOHNSON: Well, initially, of course, Larry, the shock is pretty tough. And it still is, of course. And if it wasn’t for our faith and our friends, we wouldn’t – or I couldn’t make it through this. It has been a very, very difficult, difficult time for myself. My daughter was a – just a strong, vibrant, outgoing, loving and caring person. And all she ever wanted to do was help other people. And she, of course, was a missionary and went to different countries – Egypt and South Africa, etc. And all she wanted to do was spread the word of God. And she – that was in her heart, you know? And I guess the only thing that comforts me now is I know she’s there with God right now.

KING: This doesn’t shake your faith?

JOHNSON: It did initially and I was angry, Larry, to be very honest with you. Now, after thinking of it, I believe it’s more worldly things that happened in this situation. God, of course, doesn’t – didn’t create this. And I believe that something has to be done – I mean to be very honest with you, in my opinion, in the sense of the whole – I don’t know how to stop this. I’m not saying I have answers. I would like to know and talk to somebody who has answers to something so senseless as this.

Biblical Protection From LIAP

Thus, it is ironic that the Bible contains MANY scriptures describing the predictable and reliable safety of certain individuals from LIAP and scriptures proposing infallible (but conditional) safety from LIAP:

Blessed is the man who makes the Lord his trust (Psalm 40:4)

“Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise,” says the Lord. “I will protect them from those who malign them.”

And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.

O Lord, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever. (Psalm 12: 6, 7)

And the most telling verse of all, one that should be considered a revelation that God is indeed aware of the existence of suffering and misery in the world, regardless of whether or not there exists protection from LIAP:

But you, O God, do see trouble and grief; you consider it to take it in hand. The victim commits himself to you; you are the helper of the fatherless. (Psalm 10:15)

The Bible itself, then, proposes that God violates LIAP for certain humans. But is this protection arbitrary and whimsical (such that God happens to “be in the mood” to save one from x today but may feel no motivation to do so tomorrow) or as predictable and reliable as the phenomenon of gravity? Aside from sheer reckless whim, what moral/psychological qualities must an individual possess in order to motivate God to protect the individual from direct confrontation with the LIAP?

[b]Either the LIAP is universal and truly unstoppable, or it is violated arbitrarily or continuously by a power that is distinct from yet manipulates and supercedes the physical processes and laws of the natural world.

The Bible is filled with violations of LIAP and individuals who enjoy protection from LIAP (Jonah, Elijah, Moses, Peter, Paul, etc.).[/b] If one is to assume the existence of God and God’s intention to provide conditional protection from LIAP—one can examine the conceivable qualities the biblical figures (possibly) possessed that qualified them for protection from LIAP, and compare these to the qualities presumably possessed by a ‘real-world’ person that fails qualification for God’s protection.

Thus one can reasonably deduce the conceivable factors that may lead to God-provided protection from LIAP by making a comparison between two different individuals: one a biblical and historical figure known to have enjoyed protection from LIAP within the scriptures, and the other an individual who failed protection from LIAP and is known to have existed in the ‘real world’.

1. The First Contestant

This is the charred corpse of a 6-year old female, “Star”—a victim of the Branch Davidian Compound fire set April 19, 1993 (after a 51-day siege of the frightened men, women, and children trapped within the compound by the BATF, FBI, and local law enforcement). Despite the fact that her real name was “Star”, to avoid confusion with the stellar object in the text below let’s call her: “Hannah”.

2. The Second Contestant

The second contestant for our study of why one individual receives protection from LIAP while the other does not is…….

[size=130][b]Must stop here due to restrictions upon essay-size posts!

However, the article in it’s entirety can be found in the ILP[/b] ESSAYS AND THESES section (under the same title) here:[/size]

www/ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi … 9&t=165274

Thanks once again, O faithful readers

Ummmmm, Do I get a strange sense of been here done that? I could have sworn I replied to this already. I thought Dan~ did too :confused: :confused:

I think he’s just rephrased it and changed the piturs.

Romans 8:28

We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose. For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Thus the false presuppositions that construct the main thrust of this post…are answered.

I’m here.
I remember the other thread too.

I’ll tell you what.
If I was powerful, not even God or a god, but just strong like batman or some shit,
I’d go out and save lives and do good stuff. I’d catch criminals and everything, but I wouldn’t be mean to them, I’d only lock them up to preserve peace. That would be like protection. Superman knew what he was doing. He’d protect guys too, he’d show what love and care is.

It’s fake when catholics say God is all-loving and then at the same time they’ve got sexual abuse on children from their own priests happening. Even if you’re not God, you’d try to stop that kind of abuse if you could. Anyone who cares, would at least try.

Didn’t Augustine rail against the pagan notion of quid-pro-quo in religious belief?

To Everyone:

For the record, this thread is merely a "movie trailer"for the article presented in the Essays and Theses forum, due to restrictions on essay-sized posts in any forum save the above. It’s an invitation to a post that is, in it’s full length, not-so-recommended for the Religion forum, etc.

Thus, apologies to those who were slightly “off-put” by the seeming duplication. Look at both and you will see that this thread is merely a snippet or “teaser” for the former.

And to you, shotgun:

[b]Granted. If you read the article in it’s entirety in Essays and Theses, I (in a different way) come to the same conclusion as Romans 8:28 above. But the “false presuppositions of the main thrust of the post” is CERTAINLY NOT SEEN TO BE FALSE by those who have personal experience with tragedy and suffering. It is demeaning to the currently unfaithful and the skeptic (and those currently in trouble), and all those who seem to perceive that even the morally good have no protection in this world from a purportedly good God, to simply shove a biblical verse at them and tell them: “accept this, close you eyes, shut your ears, all is well”.

Look at the news or out your window: it’s a jungle out there. I’m attempting to put a God-friendly spin on the trouble, while at the same time refusing to insult the intelligent of those who just can’t quite jump on the salvation bandwagon through non-empirical faith alone.[/b]

As Stan Lee once put it, “Nuff’ said”.

Jay

Well, if this is one of those teasers, off to MB it goes . . .

Nooooooo! :frowning:

Your full-length threads are a welcome addition to the religion section. I just think it gets messy having what amounts to the same thread twice, especially when one version isn’t fully fleshed out. You know, let people respond to the full argument as opposed to a teaser.

To Zunzian:

A thousand, thousand, thank yous. :smiley:

You’re right. Will do.