Catholicism x Protestantism x Judaism

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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A short while ago, I tried to provoke conversation, dialogue, and debate about this tripartite division among Western Civilization between three powerful branches of Abrahamic religion: Catholicism, Protestantism (Anglicanism), and Judaism. That provocation did not yield great results; therefore this will be yet another attempt. I’ll begin this thread with Nick Fuentes’ recent “America First” episode, linked here:

Take note that my attempts to broach this subject-matter got me ‘demoted’ on the “Knowthyself Forum”, led by Irish-Protestant “Apaosha”. So this is a touchy matter to the LARPagans over there. And this is obvious by how far European “Paganism” has fallen in Western history. Thus it constitutes yet another, forth aspect of religious / spiritual division: Catholicism versus Protestantism versus Judaism versus Paganism.

So before I get into the deep mud and murk of this topic… where do you (ILP denizens) stand? What’s your perspective? What’s your depth? What’s your deep wisdom on these matters? I’ll give you a chance to set the tone to the thread, before I weigh in with my own thoughts and contemplation on the matter.

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:scream:

Some like discussing and exemplifying everyone but themselves… Satyr’s invitation to me, in the early years: “feel free to join KTS, but you’re going straight in the dungeon when you do.” :eyes:

Contrary to popular belief, I don’t like drama…
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Protestantism and Judaism were created from divisive roots / Catholicism arose out of Paganism’s roots.

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Interesting video.

On your topic, you may want to include Orthodoxy. Its not precisely Western but lies at the root of Christianity, and various powers are very intent on destroying it. Maybe because it carries the original spirit of Christ. You may enjoy this channel.

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They’re just role playing games folks. Like dungeons and dragons. People want what they consider mental stimulation.

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I saw video clips of trucks, rubble, a few seconds of a guy talking and heard 32 minutes of conspiracy theory claims. Did I miss something?

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I don’t mind a little drama, on rare occasion, when it comes to philosophy and debate. People should get heated if they are to have any convictions or ideas worth defending/attacking. KTS forum may have run its course, as far as I’m concerned. I don’t trust Apaosha their Administrator – if he’s that touchy an Irish Protestant to get bent over Nick Fuentes.

The Catholic-Protestant rivalry is very powerful and deep, hence the motivation for this thread.

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I’m a fan of Jay Dyre and have seen some of his work/interviews.

Rome is to Catholicism as Constantinople is to Orthodoxy. Catholicism is Christianity of the West; Orthodoxy is Christianity of the East. I’m not skilled specifically in their main differences, or which faith holds ‘true’ to whichever particular convictions and beliefs. But the fall of Constantinople marked the decline of Orthodoxy and Greek Hellenism as the culture of the Ancients. Since then, Islam took over most of the East. Although Russia seems to be reviving the Greek Orthodox faith recently.

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True, all religions are LARP-ing to a degree, yet it is important and necessary for the masses. Ignorance is Bliss. The masses need their slave-religions and Dictat. What else do you have to say about these divisions within Abrahamism though?

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Anyway, with regard to the OP, American and the West is at a bit of a crossroads when it comes to Christianity - Catholicism - Protestantism - Paganism - Judaism - Islam, or whatever branch of Abrahamism you prefer to explore. Nick Fuentes believes that Israel/Jewish mobsters were behind JFK’s assassination. If true, and Israeli intelligence was involved to assassinate US Presidents, then what would that mean overall? What would it mean, immediately, with President Trump? Trump is being targeted by many different groups now: the Anti-American Far-Left Marxists, “Iran” in order to pull US into a war against Persia, and various other Trump-Deranged Syndrome groups. If such a thing succeeded, the US would become even more chaotic than it has already degraded.

Think back to the 1990s… did you imagine transexual men would be competing against women in women’s sports??? No, no you did not. The West has degraded and disintegrated exponentially. The WWII victory boon, the rewards and ‘good times’ are now long gone. The newere generations, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, don’t even know what it meant to enjoy prosperity, easy job opportunities, decent careers, house ownership, car ownership, etc. The West is in upheaval.

The Trump defeat over the Far-Left also signals a decline in Secularism and Leftist strength/values. They have taken a cultural defeat, losing the popular vote. Will people then recede or return to Christianity, morals, values, and leadership? I’m doubtful about that too. But the Abrahamic/Globalist/Zion political interests are more powerful than ever before.

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“But the Abrahamic/Globalist/Zion political interests are more powerful than ever before.”

I actually think Globalism has failed, Trumps actions cede global ideological dominance to the East, strengthening China and Islam, reducing the US to a national ideology. In a way Zionism is also failing. This war is a gigantic failure for Israel. Officials in office and people on the right still defend it, but in the past the country had a much broader support in the west. This was unthinkable a decade or even a few years ago:

The comments suggest that a lot of people are actually discovering themselves in their hatred of Israel. The war has generally dramatically weakened the position of Jews in the world.

I think both the far left (woke) and Trumps current presidency are signs of the decline of the western ideology. Woke erodes it from the inside, in the human core, where it wars against the term ‘mother’, Trump erodes it from the top down.

One of the most pathetic images from the US Ive ever seen is the one of Trump sitting next to the giant map with “Gulf of America” on it. It has the allure of a petty dictatorship that has no real reasons for pride. He even brought the map with him on his airplane to sit next to him.

In the press room the text “Victory” was shown in relation to this name change. A rather low standard for what the term entails and not giving much hope for future accomplishments. I was a Trump supporter before, but this is looking very bad.

I derailed your topic a bit here, I suppose. I would like to give an answer to your question of religions, but I see none of them as strong enough to bring light in the darkness, to reverse the trend of decline in the US. Europe still has paganism but it seems there is no vital interest in the American pagan spirit. But thats logical as it belongs to a dead people/world.

If Im looking at youths it looks to me like we are going back to idol worship.

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Religions also exist as means of keeping oneself oriented toward the transcendent. They are not only “larping” or mind-slavery systems of control and lies, although certainly there are almost always aspects of that.

What holds the self in attention to and in what for it can attempt to be approaching something like a proper orientation to the transcendent, to truth itself and to the metaphysical/spiritual possibilities as well as to underlying Being? Science no longer does this. Art generally speaking no longer does this. Culture today certainly does the opposite. Yet even in the past when science, art and culture did collaborate to produce means by which to seek to elevate humanity toward transcendental spaces and meanings, religion was always there as a background. Bridging these attempts across larger group distances and giving them contextual substance which acts also as a kind of historical power. Yet the separation of religion from science, from art and from culture today has all but done away with any positive influences science, art or culture might achieve even in so far as they might still actually be working toward positive outcomes. Simply because the grounding is missing, oh sure we have technology today and the impetus has transitioned into things like memes and trending tiktok videos. And we can see the effect this has. Even truths and pure meanings get truncated in space and time, their “massive” expanse of influence a tradeoff for their here one minute, gone the next ontological status.

Then on top of that you have the fact that among these new technological means of supposedly developing and spreading the positive truthful aspects that are no longer pursued or sustained by current science/art/culture there is simply too much stuff and no reasonable way to sort or prioritize it, let alone to catalogue and preserve those things which ought to be saved. Drowning in a sea of too many choices and the overstimulation of an endless information glut. Not even to speak about how social media has been designed to steal attention span and to make people stupider.

My point is that it would be helpful to elaborate further as to the “important and necessary for the masses” beyond simply saying that ignorance is bliss or that religions are slave systems. That perspective is naive and insufficiently philosophical at best.

How could one begin to understand religions if they don’t even bother to attempt a more proper and complete philosophical understanding of what religions really are, what they really do and why they even exist at all? The flattened ontology of the modern world rears itself even among the more rebellious and intelligent, as a kind of unrealized assumption in the background pushing thought down into lower veins and gutters wherever certain trigger-words like ‘religion’ are encountered. It is sad to see the utter loss of philosophy in the world and even among those who ought to know better, but at the same time it is understandable. Because even the best today have still not been shown a better way.

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I disagree. The only reason these were allowed to be “beaten” by Trump and his gang is because they’ve already done their work. The damage is done. The extremes were pushed and pushed until a dialectic resulted: on the one hand, the woke ideology was absorbed into the base of culture and by soft minds everywhere especially the younger people but also by the institutions, while on the other hand the reaction against woke was allowed to burst forth in a “win” that serves to capture the political right back into the overall political system, erasing any gains that occurred post-covid in terms of people on the right beginning to see through the illusions and lies of the political system itself, the fact that there are not really two sides and it is a single Uniparty system.

So both goals were achieved. The world controllers no longer needed to keep pushing woke crap like they have done since 2008. Imagine the effect of that stuff being pushed for almost 20 years now, well we see the effects of it all around us. There was no need to keep doing it, their goals were achieved, like I said. Now it’s time for the pretend game of “the outsiders and common average person winning against the powerful “elites”” to play itself out, as it always does whenever excess stress and heat needs to be vented from within the gears of the system.

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Apaosha and your recent comment seem to verify my suspicion and premise:

Religion is the Politics of Yesterday.

Whether “Protestant”, Catholic, Jewish, LARPagan / Secularist, Moslem, or what-have-you, religious-beliefs have very powerful and ancient momentums to them. They signal political affiliations. This is why Apaosha in particular has such a strong, virulent, anti-Catholic reaction to Nick Fuentes. He’s a sensitive, Irish Protestant type. The Irish have deep-seated animosity about the Roman Pope’s incursion into their homeland isle.

Romans, after all, have subjugated the British Islanders from very, very long ago. They’re still butthurt about it.

Your initial comment about Orthodoxy – well here’s my opinion. Orthodoxy apex and climaxed before Constantinople fell. That was the highlight and height of the Greek Dynasty, of which Satyr is their successor and progeny. “Eastern Rome” fell to the Islamic hordes and Asiatic barbarians long ago too. Istanbul is under Turk, mongrel occupation. Just recently, they have erupted in protests due to runaway inflation and devaluation of their currency. They are yet another Political piece in the world. In that region, obviously Jerusalem and the Zionists are vying for complete control. Which brings the matter to Judaism and Jews. How powerful have they become? Has their power crested, or, will they continue to rise? That is relevant more than ever, because Jews and Mossad are eying a potential Trump assassination, under the pretext of “Iran did it!!” in order to bring USA and Americans into their Zionist wars in the Middle East.

Political desires are rooted in Religions. Secularists are misinformed, and willfully ignorant.

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I agree, for the most part. Religions do attempt to at least, tap into the Spiritual aspect of reality and existence. Cultures are deep-rooted. If people are indeed the products of their regions, demographics, and cultures, then through their culture (religion is its extension), their spiritual expressions and willful aspirations are unveiled and realized through their ‘Religions’. Hence Western Civilization’s “Atheism” and Secularism, are also extensions of Christian Protestantism, or aka, Anti-Catholicism.

Because what does “Protestantism” mean, except Protest against the Roman Papacy, against Rome, against The Pope?

American Christians are wannabes, with an inferiority complex, toward the Roman Empire. Apaosha demonstrated to this me unwittingly and involuntarily.

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Last I checked, America is the Roman Empire. Somewhere in its later stages of decline but not yet having lost its ability to project power or totally lost control over its borders and finances.

I don’t really care about different sects of Christianity. Jesus didn’t talk about institutions or the church in the way Catholics or other certain (only OUR sect will go to heaven!) Christians tend to talk about it. I have gratitude for the Catholics being essentially the sole torch-bearers of Christianity for a thousand years, before other groups were popping up with their own ideas and interpretations. Yet there is zero reason to think or believe or want that a religion like Christianity ought to or is represented entirely by a single sect and that sect’s particular idiosyncrasies, most of which were never spoken of by Jesus to begin with.

Jesus did describe the church as his body, the body of Christ, as everyone who believes in him and follows him. That is not exclusive to this or that sect. But again, regardless what people think about this issue, I don’t much care either way. People can have their hard sectarian positions, believing only THEY and their group are favored by God and by Christ. Ok, cool story. You go on believing that, hell you may even be right. But feel free to call be unconcerned with such radical pronouncements that cannot even be substantially or clearly backed up by the historical teachings of your own prophet.

Overall, religions at least attempt an orientation to the spiritual, as you said, and for that they should be respected. Or as grand works of art and culture, as Camille Paglia thinks we should make the study of world religions the core of education world-wide. To learn about each other, beliefs and cultures and histories and the aesthetic-valuational-ethical substances embedded within religions.

Then again I certainly understand the anti-religious positions that focus on all of the negatives of religion, of which there are certainly many. Don’t ask me to come down entirely on one side or another. As is usually the case, the truth partakes of most positions and is somewhere in the middle. But how many people want to look for the truth in the middle of “religion is good” and “religion is bad” or between “my religion is correct” and “MY religion is correct and yours is wrong” or “no religions are correct, you idiot”? Not many.

Yeah, Protest-ants were protesting stuff they didn’t like. Not many Protestants today know that Luther removed 7 books from the Bible, turning the overall number of books from 73 to 66. Interesting choice of numbers to reduce it to. Oh, the overly educated Protestant may complain, those 7 books were not REMOVED they were just appended at the end, because they weren’t REALLY all that important anyway. Ok then, show me a typical Bible used by a typical Protestant sect that contains those extra 7 books. Bet you can’t do it.

And of course the Bible was constructed by a group of men who debated and voted what writings to include and what not to include. Silly perhaps to consider the result of that process as purely divine inspiration and utter perfection. Although Catholics will claim that the entire process of its production was totally governed by God just the way he wanted it… yeah that definitely doesn’t sound like a cop-out, lol.

Just focus on the teachings of Jesus, try to follow his words and understand his meanings, meditate and think on spiritual matters and trying to be a better person. Trying to figure out what God (if he exists) would want you to be doing with this life you have for a while here on earth. Practice virtues spoken of by Jesus, like humility, love, generosity, obedience to God’s will, honesty, forgiveness. Try your best to remove sin from your heart and from your actions. That’s about all any authentic Christian can really do, and ought to be expected to do.

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Most people have no idea that the Catholic ten commandments and the Biblical ten commandments are different. In the Catholic catechism it shows that the ten commandments have been altered by the Catholic church.

HumAnIze
Just focus on the teachings of Jesus, try to follow his words and understand his meanings, meditate and think on spiritual matters and trying to be a better person. Trying to figure out what God (if he exists) would want you to be doing with this life you have for a while here on earth. Practice virtues spoken of by Jesus, like humility, love, generosity, obedience to God’s will, honesty, forgiveness. Try your best to remove sin from your heart and from your actions. That’s about all any authentic Christian can really do, and ought to be expected to do.

2 Timothy 1-2:
The apostle Paul warns Timothy to avoid godless chatter and to stand firm on the solid foundation of the Lord, knowing those who are His.

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I don’t believe the 10 commandments in Catholicism are substantially different from what Protestants also believe. Maybe a phrasing issue here and there. The 10 commandments come from Moses and existed with Judaism anyway, which obviously predated Christ. Christ was Jewish and came from within that religion, but seriously altered it so much as to start an entirely new offshoot. Those Jews who accepted his teachings became the early Christians, those who didn’t stayed Jews.

As to what you quote from 2 Timothy, yes :+1: :heart:

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Catholic Commandments (Catechism of the Catholic church)

The 2nd Commandment removed and replaced with the 3rd and the rest re- numbered.

I dont wish to be pedantic but it is important to be aware of all the subtleties.

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.” (Deut. 4:2.)

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On 28 October 2025, the Catholic Church will celebrate 60 years since the promulgation of its declaration on non-Christian religions, Nostra aetate (named after the first two Latin words with which the document begins, “In our time …”). Nostra aetate was one of the seven last documents of the most significant council of the Catholic Church in the last century, which spanned three years (1962-1965) and two popes (John XXIII and Paul VI).

As a document, Nostra aetate contains the teaching of the Second Vatican Council, which marked a significant turning point in the way Catholics related to people of non-Christian religious traditions. We might describe this shift as being from an attitude of suspicion to respect; from defensiveness to openness; from distance to partnership. It is worth asking, then, how the Catholic Church currently understands its relationship with Judaism and the Jewish people — particularly in light of ever-increasing hostilities in the world, some of which have religious overtones.

Consider the third paragraph of Nostra aetate, which states:

Another picture emerges when we look at the following paragraph. (And we should remember at this point that Nostra aetate was originally conceived as a document dealing with the Catholic Church’s relationship with Judaism and the Jewish people). It is a much longer paragraph and is almost always held up as the signal moment in which the Catholic Church turned its back on centuries of the teaching of contempt towards Judaism and Jewish people. But the paragraph is filled with ambiguities. To take just one of them:

Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures.

The Catholic Church no longer holds all Jews responsible for the death of Christ.

Yet it does so by mentioning, with unconcealed regret, the Jewish rejection of Jesus as the Christ and Saviour.

Excerpts from Religion & Ethics ABC
Emmanuel Nathan

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Boooorrriiing. I find the eschatology and history of Middle Earth to be far more edifying.

…

During this time the Elves realized how Men were rising to take their place, and Sauron exploited their longing for the Undying Lands. Annatar corrupted Celebrimbor, the grandson of Fëanor, to make the Rings of Power, with the Three Rings being created specifically to preserve the Elves against the ravages of time. Annatar was a guise of Sauron who also forged a ring – the One Ring. However the Elves realised the deception and defied Sauron, who then waged War against them. In the following centuries Elves continued to heed the invitation of the Valar, desire the Sea and depart for the Undying Lands. Realms such as Dol Amroth were deserted and gave their place to Men.

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