Challenging the idea of taking God and theism seriously

In this thread I will challenge the idea that a general God concept is to be taken any more seriously than other similar mythological beings.

First of all I’ll make a clear distinction between internal reasons why something should be seriously considered and external reasons.

Internal reasons are those pertaining to the thing itself - how much explanatory value does the thing have, how much evidence is backing it up, and generally, how true it likely is. Essentially, reasons/empirical evidence why we would rationally accept a position.

External reasons are those pertaining to the consequences of already accepting a position or how worthy the position is of contemplation regardless of its truthiness, f.e. how useful can it prove to be for certain goals (which doesn’t have anything to do with truth), how many people are acting based on those beliefs , how interesting/aesthetically appealing it is etc.

The reason I make the distinction is that I will only focus on internal reasons here, since I care only about truthiness in this thread, or the probability of God claims being true, not how they can be (ab)used to manipulate the herd or how many people are acting based on those beliefs, which is usually the thing that forces other people, including me, to tackle those beliefs seriously.

The reason I made this thread is that I’ve heard far too many people claim they are theists and yet that mythological beings existing and fantasy don’t deserve serious consideration; I’ve noticed far too many agnostics claiming agnosticism about God, but being dogmatically gnostic regarding the non-existence of other mythological beings for which there is no proper empirical evidence either. Or at least, I’ve never heard anybody referring to themselves as agnostic in relation to mythology/fantasy (aside from God of course :wink: ).

People so frequently claim with dogmatic conviction that dragons are made up, giants are mythology, Zeus is obviously false etc. but when it comes to God they say that us atheists “can’t know for sure”. Of course, they will get emotionally offended when the heretic disbeliever then points out that you can’t, really, know for sure about dragons, giants or Zeus either, but you conclude they don’t exist since the leap in probability is perceived as a small one to make by both, atheists and theists most of the time. Therefore, it’s inconsistent that they complain when atheists make the same leap about God. God and other mythology doesn’t exist about 99.999…%, just some stronger atheists go that 0.000…1% further and claim with 100% certainty he doesn’t exist, the same reasoning we both, atheists and theists, use about mythological beings.

Some claim God has explanatory power, but I’ve never seen such arguments logically go beyond the classic argument from ignorance logical fallacy and appeal to emotion or personal incredulity - we might posit a dragon as an explanation for some natural event, like a forest fire, but without proper evidence that dragons exist in the first place, we would just be explaining a mysterious event with an even more mysterious and unknown explanation. It’s far more likely that the fire was caused by natural, known explanations like heat and human neglect, wouldn’t you say?

Shortly put, the same kind of reasoning theists and atheists use to claim giants, dragons and Zeus don’t exist (lack of proper evidence, leaps in logic (fallacious logic), humans being prone to various psychological biases, intentionally lying or being delusional due to drugs) some atheists use to dismiss God.

And this is the problem most theists are faced with - to be consistent they would have to admit all other mythology and any other idea, or a system of ideas conceived by humans is possibly true just because they can’t disprove it, but they usually refuse to do so because it would put God on equal footing with other mythology and expose the poor foundations of their own beliefs.

Conclusion:
We may not be able to know if God exists or not, but we can’t know for certain in plenty of other cases when it comes to mythological beings - to remain consistent and practical, because the concept of God lacks any relevant internal reasons to be seriously considered, I deem him to be unworthy of serious consideration like I would any other such concept.

I should add that my initial intent is not offending somebody but stating my thoughts as they are, without embellishment for the sake of other people’s emotions. This is probably the last thread I’ll create about God for some time so it in a way signifies my transition of interests to other areas of philosophy, which is reflected in the nature of my reasoning here as well.

Well as the old saying goes about theists… “Everyone is an atheist except one person.”, when people really delve into what they mean by God, they’ll find differences, so for the theist, that person is an atheist (a non-believer).

Yes, it’s a widely used argument by atheists, and it does have a point, but technically it’s wrong.

Theist = a person who believes in a God.
Atheist = a person who doesn’t believe in a God.

So basically, if a person believes in a God they can’t be an atheist (obviously).

The point that atheists usually make with it is that the positions of theism/atheism can also be understood to describe how our beliefs relate to each possible God, and in that sense the monotheist and the atheist usually agree on millions/billions of Gods not to exist, except one.

Technically that’s true… I considered this phrase on topic because of the whole concept of other mythological beings… to Muslims, we are the infidels, that’s the same word they use for atheists. They don’t make the distinction… if you don’t worship the God named “Allah” in the manner of the Koran, you are effectively an atheist. Just using the word “God” makes us infidels to Muslims, atheists. We worship Satan, we worship on the altar of DOG. By not worshiping anyone, we are infidels (worshiping on the altar of Satanism for example - they can’t allow that there’s such a thing as non-worship), and by worshiping the wrong being we are infidels. From their perspective, we are worshiping something that doesn’t exist, and are infidels. But this isn’t true just of Muslims, this is LARGELY true of the religious, from their perspective, if you aren’t worshiping God, you HAVE to be worshiping Satan to keep you in their narrative (which includes non-worship).

Yeah, the word atheist originates from ancient Greece and couple of centuries later Christians and Hellenes each referred to the other as an “atheist”, using it in a derogatory sense. Essentially, each religion declared followers of another religion atheists because they didn’t worship they specific Gods, they were atheist towards them, and since they only acknowledged their own Gods as possible and true, it was irrelevant that those others worshiped other Gods.

Why are you we even considering dragons, Zeus, giants, and God to be part of the same class of things, aside from atheists (and not even all atheists) apparently thinking of them that way? You may as well declare that a highest prime number, or life on other worlds doesn’t exist on the grounds that leprechauns don’t exist, and if you don’t have to argue against leprechauns you shouldn’t have to argue against these other things either. It’s like you’re trying to construct an argument from your own personal incredulity about other people’s beliefs. I don’t get it.
God and dragons and giants aren’t on par when it comes to evidence to support their existence, not even a little bit. That’s just a thing that bad atheists on the internet say to make themselves feel superior. Good atheists don’t even say it.

I guess I’m a bad atheist then.
I think the amount of evidence supporting them is similar. I assume that a relevant difference is supposed to be the fact that one is believed by many, the other isn’t, but that belongs to external reasons. And aside from that, it doesn’t hold almost any weight because most people are indoctrinated from young age into a religion and plays on their psychological biases. I think that philosophy is supposed precisely to overcome that type of herd thinking and see the truth behind it.
I mean, if we were living in ancient Greece, I assume you’d be making similar arguments about Greek Gods, that since the majority believe in them they must exist… such arguments are simply too reliant on contingent circumstances to be taken seriously by me anymore.

And well, one can make similar arguments to ones for existence of God about almost anything else, including dragons and giants. I’m not saying they’re exactly the same, but very similar.