Cheney shoots old man while hunting

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21

Phaedrus: I think McCain will be the next president. If that happens I’m anxious to see how you’ll cope.

K: A conversation on the first tues of nov in 2008.
Doctor, Doctor this man seems to be convulsing and
going into shock and he keeps screaming, noooooooooo,
NOOOOOOOOOOO, NOOOOOOOOOOO,
Let see his drivers licence,
Ummm, some guy name Kropotkin, ok lets put him on
suicide watch and hope we find out what happeneded.

PH: Your answer is odd- Bush seems no dumber than you. He graduated Harvard, didn’t he?"

K: I did not go to collage because I have been supporting myself
since I was 18, working full time for the last 28 years makes it
a little tough to go to school. If your daddy was U.S. congressmen
and power player, you can get into any school in the country.
That how bush got into collage. Daddy pulled strings.

Kropotkin

22

I’m very surprised you didn’t go to college. I know very people so liberal as you that didn’t attend a university.

I don’t think GWB is a great thinker, but neither do I think he’s stupid. Not in any conventional sense. It seems he lets religious dogma and ideology guide his actions to a greater degree than he should, and he’s not a great public speaker, but that doesn’t make him stupid. A big part of the reason he won the election twice is the persistent liberal mistake of thinking he is.

You guys keep misunderstimating him. [-X :laughing:

23

Phaedrus:I’m very surprised you didn’t go to college. I know very people so liberal as you that didn’t attend a university.

K: my thoughts have gone through the fire.
I got to my present way of thinking by tearing every
bit of my own thinking down and then rebuilding my
thinking. I have had several different political views before
this current one and may one day have another political view.

PH: I don’t think GWB is a great thinker, but neither do I think he’s stupid. Not in any conventional sense. It seems he lets religious dogma and ideology guide his actions to a greater degree than he should, and he’s not a great public speaker, but that doesn’t make him stupid. A big part of the reason he won the election twice is the persistent liberal mistake of thinking he is.

K: I saw a part of a debate, Don’t remember which one,
where bush lite couldn’t even talk intelligently about some subject
for the whole 2 and half minutes, he just sputter out and just
stopped talking.

“You guys keep misunderestimating him”

K: Without the massive conservative press cover up,
the publice at large would know bush is the king without clothes.

Kropotkin

24

That’s horseshit and you know it, Pete. The media in the United States is overwhelmingly liberal. AM talk radio is a bastion of conservatism, but CNN and ABC are incredibly leftist. Surely Fox News can’t singlehandedly hoodwink the whole country, can they?

The problem you really have is failing to comprehend that 1/2 the country simply thinks differently than you. Not everyone thinks the war is wrong and not everyone thinks reexamining Roe Vs Wade is a bad thing. Bush isn’t hoodwinking those people, he’s speaking what they’re thinking.

I’d love to put you on national TV and see how smart you sound in front of 100 million people! =D> The guys forte clearly is not thinking on his feet, but again, that doesn’t make someone stupid. Nor does fervently wishing it were true. Of course, I’ve never met him and I don’t know what his IQ is.

25

CNN leftist?

wow

I’ll give you that they’re one of the smartest.

Btw, Bush had an earpeice during the debate (one of them) and still looked like he was on about 9 beers (american of course).

I don’t think he’s a complete mental wasteland, but he’s not bright and he’s done too much coke. I mean… when you just flat out lie (about seeing seeing the plane crash into the tower on TV at a school an hour before any station started broadcasting it) about things, and then tell the truth jokingly when you shouldn’t that’s more than just not being quick on your feet or being a great public thinker.

If you’re not quick on your feet and you’re not a public thinker, then why the fuck are you President? ‘Charisma’ is an illusion. If the media says someone is ‘Charismatic’ enough they’ll believe it. Just like how all the ‘Lefty’ news organs said the word ‘flip-flop’ refering to Kerry something ridiculous like 2000 times during the election period.

This isn’t about left-right boys, it’s about making it appear that way as we slowly shift right overall.

26

So why the fuck does being a good public speaker make you a good president? =P~ That doesn’t matter a bit.

I’m surprised you don’t see CNN as the Communist News Network. :wink: They are pretty far to the left, from my perspective. And no, I’m not a Republican. I really don’t think they’re a very good network anymore, either. All television news is spiraling downt the shitter. The “24 hour news cycle” has created the illusion of a need for constant chatter. Most of what CNN spews forth isn’t even news at all, it’s a mixture of propaganda and advertisement- it’s simply an infotainment product. It should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe a whole shaker of salt.

I will agree with you pinkos that he hasn’t done a very good job overall. And I’ll be glad to see his term expire. I seriously doubt there’ll be any impeachment, unless Pete and his voodoo dolls have their way. My main problem with Bush is not Iraq- it’s the ironically named “Patriot Act.” What a name for the most unpatriotic, un-American peice of legislation I can ever remember seeing. Sure, it’s not all Bush, but he deserves most of the blame.

27

Phaedrus:That’s horseshit and you know it, Pete. The media in the United States is overwhelmingly liberal. AM talk radio is a bastion of conservatism, but CNN and ABC are incredibly leftist. Surely Fox News can’t singlehandedly hoodwink the whole country, can they?

K: You are repeating old chestnuts without actually researching
it. ABC is owned by the mouse, (Disney) and that is a very
conservative corporation. You have to remember the
the rank and file might be liberal, but the editors and above
are very conservative. Newspapers are a business and
business overwhelmingly favor the GOP because business
want those big tax cuts and little corporate giveaways
that the GOP loves giving out.

PH: The problem you really have is failing to comprehend that 1/2 the country simply thinks differently than you. Not everyone thinks the war is wrong and not everyone thinks reexamining Roe Vs Wade is a bad thing. Bush isn’t hoodwinking those people, he’s speaking what they’re thinking."

K: you think I have always lived in California? I was born in the midwest
and still have plenty of family there. And recall that in 2000,
bush lite lost the popular vote and if you add up the votes
of senators in 2004, the democrates had far more votes then
the republican senators. And I believe the democrates have
a program that most people approve of.

PH. “I’d love to put you on national TV and see how smart you sound in front of 100 million people! = The guys forte clearly is not thinking on his feet, but again, that doesn’t make someone stupid. Nor does fervently wishing it were true. Of course, I’ve never met him and I don’t know what his IQ is.”

K: I have spoken in front of audiences and I am a good enough
speaker to get by, if I had to. Why, because I don’t care.

Kropotkin

28

Pete, pointing out that Disney owns them and weaving that nugget into your conspiracy fantasy is not research. [-X I’m really surprised that you would even try to refute their bias. Even CNN would probably admit it. No, on second thought that would require intellectual honesty on their part, which they do not possess.

I don’t know or care where you grew up, Pete. But I did follow election returns, and outside of the most liberal urban population centers, Bush ran away with the popular vote in the both elections. In the part of the country where I live, he won around 80% of the popular vote. In the midwest, where you profess to hail from, attitudes run against abortion and many support the war.

Still, you seem to have trouble with basic math. Bush did win very close to 1/2 the popular vote, and even if you want to quibble over a few percent, the real fact is that America is deeply divided. A look at the Red/Blue map that seems to provide your personal identity is telling- if it’s broken down by county, not state, around 95% of the US is red. The real issue is that you have a war for the hearts and minds of two very different populaces- an urban, almost completely liberal one and a less urban, rural conservative one. I have postulated my theories on what that is at length elsewhere, so I won’t repeat it here, but I feel you neglect the fact that the concerns of the less populous states are very different than those of California.

New York and Cali have a lot of folks, but they ain’t the whole country. Bush knows this, even if you don’t.

29

Phaedrus:Pete, pointing out that Disney owns them and weaving that nugget into your conspiracy fantasy is not research. I’m really surprised that you would even try to refute their bias. Even CNN would probably admit it. No, on second thought that would require intellectual honesty on their part, which they do not possess.

K: Conspiracy? I am not Old Gobbo. I am old enough to know
the key in life is to follow the money. You want to know what is going
on, follow the money. The money here says, business follow bush and
the GOP. It is not hard to figure out. Cnn does not pretend unlike
fox news, fair and balanced? I don’t think so. Disney is a conservative
corporation, whether you believe it or not. Cnn is not and does not
pretend to be anything more then liberal and even it is still quite often
follow the conservative party line. Watch it sometimes. Notice quite
often in news stories it won’t have a democratic /liberal voice when
it reports it stories. I.e. when it brings on its talking heads, quite
often the talking heads on any given story, are all conservative/GOP.

PH: I don’t know or care where you grew up, Pete. But I did follow election returns, and outside of the most liberal urban population centers, Bush ran away with the popular vote in the both elections. In the part of the country where I live, he won around 80% of the popular vote. In the Midwest, where you profess to hail from, attitudes run against abortion and many support the war.

K: Still in 2000, bush lost the popular vote,
and in 2004, democratic senators won more
votes then GOP senators, the so called red states
for the most part are losing population, but the population
is growing older and thus more conservative, so it kinda a
toss up. The future is always about demographics. Follow
the demographics and quite often you can figure out what
is going on. Not always, but quite often.

PH: Still, you seem to have trouble with basic math. Bush did win very close to 1/2 the popular vote, and even if you want to quibble over a few percent, the real fact is that America is deeply divided. A look at the Red/Blue map that seems to provide your personal identity is telling- if it’s broken down by county, not state, around 95% of the US is red. The real issue is that you have a war for the hearts and minds of two very different populaces- an urban, almost completely liberal one and a less urban, rural conservative one. I have postulated my theories on what that is at length elsewhere, so I won’t repeat it here, but I feel you neglect the fact that the concerns of the less populous states are very different than those of California.

K: Looking back into American history, one can see a really strong
streak of, how shall I say, blind stupidity. Americans quite often
can be smart about things, and then they go and be quite stupid.
For example, this whole evolution thing, even the Vatican has
said twice, 1912 or 1916 and 1996 that evolution is a fact and still people
are just being stupid thinking Intelligent Design has something that evolution doesn’t have despite the fact, evolutionary theory has
a beyond a shadow of a doubt, more truth then any other theory.
That is America. Being stupid beyond a shadow of a doubt
and calling it patriotic. I can pull dozens of examples out of
history of stupidity. I need only mention the KKK who at
one time had a 50,000 person march on washington in 1923.
I see America going to a stupid place again and calling it
patriotic. That is what I fight, the once and future king,
stupidity."

PH: “New York and Cali have a lot of folks, but they ain’t the whole country. Bush knows this, even if you don’t.”

K: bush doesn’t give a rats ass about New york or California.
It was 3 years into office before he visited California
and that visit was in LA, which has some very conservative area’s
(orange county). He sucks up to his base. the first president in U.S.
history to just ignore half the country and play to his base no matter
what.

Kropotkin

30

So, Americans are smart when they agree with you, stupid when they don’t? It seems to me you and “Bush lite” are the same, just opposite sides of the same coin.

31

If I may interject, I just have a short question, or more precisely I request further thoughts of yours on this matter. When I hear Bush talk about being religiously guided and whatnot, I think to myself that this guy can’t be serious. I mean, God told him to invade Iraq? So I had just assumed that it was all an act for, you know, political purposes. Anyways, perhaps you think that he really is going by religious dogma, yes?

32

rofl

it’s like einstein said… everything depends on the point of prespective :stuck_out_tongue:
i’ve yet to experience a ‘leftist’ american media :unamused:

fox is madly twisted, don’t know if you can actually call it journalism anymore
among other things, i heard ‘let’s scorn her’ or something not too far on fox news
that does it for me… no credible journalist can make such a comment

33

Even if that’s true (I don’t watch Fox), there’s still ABC, NBC, CBS & CNN, all of which are pretty liberal. Not to mention Time, Newsweek & the New York Times. There will always be some conservatives mixed in there, but historically the media in all it’s forms has leaned left in the US. In a way it doesn’t matter; mainstream media is going to leave skid marks on the bowl. Information is not longer controlled just by governments and mainstream media outlets. Modern technology has allowed more people to experience the “raw feed” and interpret it for themselves.

Of course, I agree it’s a matter of perspective. If Fox says anything that’s not a scathing indictment of Bush it will be seen as biased to the right, at least by the hardcore liberals. And vice versa.

34

I’ll be honest, I find all American News media to be liberal conservative in its leanings, namely it generally approves of free market capitalism, cultural individualism and laissez faire politics. Arguing whether it leans slightly to the left of liberal conservatism or slightly to the right of liberal conservatism (Liberalism being neither Left nor Right, Conservatism being neither Left nor Right, inherently) seems, to me, to be something of an irrelevant point. Americans news media across the board essentially advances what looks to a European like the same basic agenda. I’m not gloating or expressing superiority or anything similar but as a European I’ve got access to a much wider range of news sources.

Almost all US political debate works within the framework of the free market, individualist, laissez faire genre. Hence why both main parties claim to be the party of freedom and the emerging third party are libertarians (i.e. just another variation on the same theme). I find it amusing that even intelligent Americans often fail to see this, possibly because they’ve just never read any history other than that of the United States, which emerged as the whole of western society was turning capitalist. In short: Americans have never known it to be different, they’ve never had communism or constitutional monarchy or enlightened despotism or fascism or anarchism. It is unsurprising therefore that as a general body Americans are pretty unimaginative with their politics…

Like I say, I’m not gloating and I don’t mean to insult. I’m perfectly aware that there are exceptions to this in the US…

35

thank the us public schools…

-Imp

36

Do the police know that your license was issued to a phoney name?

37

K: A conversation on the first tues of nov in 2008.
Doctor, Doctor this man seems to be convulsing and
going into shock and he keeps screaming, noooooooooo,
NOOOOOOOOOOO, NOOOOOOOOOOO,
Let see his drivers licence,
Ummm, some guy name Kropotkin, ok lets put him on
suicide watch and hope we find out what happened.

S: Do the police know that your license was issued to a phony name?"

K: I used Kropotkin to keep the story consistent, If I used my real
last name I would have made the story confusing.

Kropotkin

38

Phaedrus: So, Americans are smart when they agree with you, stupid when they don’t? It seems to me you and “Bush lite” are the same, just opposite sides of the same coin."

K: I am aware of U.S. history and there have been some real
acts of stupidity in American history. I pointed out one when
I mentioned the KKK, that had a 50,000 person march between
the capitol and the white house in 1923. Other acts of stupidity
was Mccarthyism in the 50’s, the Palmer raids 1919-1920,
the genocide of Indians during the first 300 years of America,
the witch hunts of Salem in 1693, the lynching of blacks over
decades, for examples. I see the current mood as following the
same path of sheer stupidity. I hope we wake up in time.

Kropotkin