China invades Indian Territory, again.

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

m.indiatoday.in/story/salman-khu … 67470.html

This is getting old, the Chinese keep snatching and holding Indian territory, then ghost. It’s not a policy against Indua alone, they invaded Filipino territory and continue to hold it to this day, and picked a border war with Vietnam (which Vietman won) back in the late 80s.

It’s a old probing strategem used back under Mao… Problem is, tactically, they’ve always done so using tactically weak positions… it’s like they are begging TO BE ATTACKED… which suggests their overall strategy isn’t invasion, but to secure military funding and increased control via consent from the people from perceived threats.

I think the Indians should just train monkies to use Samurai swords, and sneak them in neat the Chinese FOB, and let the samurai monkies bewilder the troops. A soldier can accept the threats and even death from an idealized enemy, but jumpy, crawling samurai monkies leaping, screeching, and swinging blades is something most couldn’t stomach. They be afraid to use the latrine… monkey might be down there with a sword. No one wants to poop there, and they will quickly tire of pooping in overflowing fields cluttered with fecal landmines.

2

I guess Empire Nations like that are so large they’ll snatch up whatever land they can.

Makes sense.

3

c_n, don’t the Chinese do this often? Not just in India, but in any nation that was once a part of the fullest extent of ancient China’s conquests and influence? (See Tibet.) China intrudes on neighbors, establishes an encampment in a ‘remote’ location (expecting no opposition), then claims ‘squatter’s rights’.

4

Yes Liz, they do… it’s a component of old Chinese Statecraft… however, back in the day it was to provide a foreign threat to solidify the Chinese together. Mao exploited this tradition to a high level of paranoia.

Problem is, this doesn’t really apply now, a strong middle class negates this necessity, and China has the worlds largest Middle Class, thanks to Deng Xiaoping’s Anti-Maoist reforms.

It’s typically interpreted within international law precedent what they are trying to do- they take these lands, and in the face of intimidation of others into a ineffectual stance militarily or though silence via acquiescence, they hope to lay greater territorial claim over say, ocean waters or airspace, or making treaties in force disputable in the future showing they have for long periods controlled elements they were not supposed to for so long that enforcement of the treaty unfairly threatens their other rights, such as national security and investments, and can’t be seen as aggressiveness on their part for continuing minor expansion.

I think this is a second level, fall back position and not the primary reason. They purposely make tactically absurd positions that at face value suggests they are exploiting a loop hole- legalities, when they are intact doing this to encourage attack against their weak positions so the can flood that territory and beyond with troops for self defense purposes. I have a suspicion there are some minerals China has been eyeing deeper within, beyond the disputed zone well inside India but could be plausibly be held by China if given just cause. A look at the islands in the phillipines China took, for example, suggests this. If the US and Phillipines counter-striked, they would have plausible excuse for flooding the area with marines and naval support, fortifying several extra islands as a buffer zone, thereby expanding their territorial claims to land and waters.

India’s lack of attack, despite having a five star Air Marshall head of the military who first instinct would be a air attack, suggests they grasp this. China moves in, provocatively grabs disputed land, then ghosts, abandoning it, and its face value looks like its doing this so as to lay occuptational rights to it in a international court. The lack of attack suggests India comprehends a alterior motive. I suspect there is also ample communication between China and Pakistan when this occurs, with reassurances on both sides to back the other to over stretch India’s military.

It’s why I found India’s move to try and rent the Airbase in Tadjikistan so interesting. It’s not as much a threat to Pakistan rather than China.

5

Here is two more links for background info:

m.indiatoday.in/story/india-to-i … 67684.html

m.indiatoday.in/story/china-viol … 67573.html

Accidental border crossings do happen, take Switzerland- it sometimes accidentally invades Luxumburg, Italy accidentally landed armed troops in Sweden… but Chinese systematically do this with incredibly weak forces in the hopes of a armed confrontation.

6

It’s too late to answer you fully, tonight. There’s a lot going on that most people don’t think of but that certainly deserves thought and attention. This really isn’t a baseless conspiracy theory, folks. :slight_smile:

7

Hmm… a country begging to be attacked due to constant invasions of other countries, in order to secure military funding and increased control via consent from the people from perceived threats.

Sounds like America.

8

:laughing:

9

Might is Right !!! FYI, China never invaded a foreign land for the last 600 years(?) Tibet should remain a part of China. what would the Tibetans gain from Independence?

10

China hasn’t been a unified political entity in the last 600 years. And yes, it has invaded, several times- Soviet Union and Vietnam and the Phillipines in modern times, not to mention Taiwanese territories.

There has always been more of China in modern history than a central government has laid claim to. It’s uncomfortable for many Chinese to admit to, but its the truth, its a naturally fracturing country. It’s why the nations military divisions are so carefully balanced and supervised- so independent clique like during the 20s and 30s don’t pop up again. Hence why this stuff isn’t accidental. Also hence why it doesn’t work as a internal strategy for integrity- this is counter productive to countries with large middle classes- they hold a country together, not foreign scare policies.

11

Hmm… a fractured country without political unity, which has invaded other countries several times, requiring carefully balanced and supervised military divisions to stop dissent, even though this doesn’t work as a means to integrate and even though there is already a large middle class.

Sounds like America.

12

You guys have odd concepts of lack of unity.

13

Because everyone in America is so united in their values, without a 50/50 split down the middle in election results (regardless of what/who the public actually wanted to vote for but feared would be a wasted vote), without the explicit presence of all kinds of opinions (political and otherwise) ranging from all extremes to all others, where the “culture” is in fact based on the freedom to be different and even encourages being as distinctive and un-united as possible, where the economy is based on competition such that any new niche that goes against the grain is the one that promises the most profit, a process which the entire economy relies on in order to survive at all, and without being divided into 50 different states that each have the freedom to go by their own rules, each inhabiting a wide range of relatively newer immigrants from all kinds of different cultures as well as the older immigrants that first took over the continent.

Is that unity to you?

14

m.indiatoday.in/story/chinese-tr … 68364.html

Suspicions increasingly confirmed. I’m willing to bet the new tent is a cooks tent for waiting out the long hull.

Indians are notoriously under-armored for holding actions, despite being elite trained as arctic troops.

15

Sure it’s Degenerating and the nauseatingly Repeated appraisment of Individualism and “freedom” doesn’t do much to foster a more unified Nation, still for as Large as our Nation-Empire is we’ve managed to stay very unified.

It could be better, it could be worse.

16

Ok so now you’re back-pedalling to a point about neither China nor the US being completely unified or disintegrated. I would agree with that, of course. This is entirely compatible with simply lacking unity, just as it is with showing unity (it could be better, it could be worse). But then that observation is put in terms that would trivialise the whole point, which is that both are significantly lacking in unity (as opposed to merely being somewhere on some scale between 0% and 100%, which everything obviously always is). I would even go as far as to say that the unity in the US is less than the unity in China - making the US actually a better example of the point that the OP is trying to make. However, that point is now cliché so it is understandable that he’s gone for China instead. I’m just exposing this tactic, especially since there is always a sickeningly pro-American slant to everything C_N says (or at least anti-anti-American), which is too full of annoying hypocrisy to be left alone.

17

Based on what? Simply because we aren’t as unified as we could be does mean we’re “significantly” lacking in unity, but you seem to think so, can you put foreward your reasoning?

What Tactic?

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What I do now? I’m not aware Americanism/AntiAmericanism has anything to do with this, and to nitpick, your misusing Tactic here philosophically, you appear to be accusing me of Doctrinal errors via nationality, but my doctrinal contrast here has used traditional Chinese and Indian outlooks from their philosophy of statecraft from a martial perspective.

Kindly point to the founding father, president, senator or representative, or political party in the US I am deriving this from. It’s not even John Adams Machiavellianism I’m reaching from here, its pureAsian statecraft via THEIR military classics.

Just because I am a American, doesn’t mean everything I say is the American position. I’m a Cynic first, and that means a Cosmopolitan. I am discussing this from a branch of philosophy known as Statecraft… very ancient roots. It’s no more ‘Americanism’ or at the very least ‘Anti-Anti Americanism’ than say, Buddhism is Vietnamese, everyone who talks about dharma and nirvana is a Vietcong digging tunnels under their tulip garden, or all Ontologists are notoriously pro-Canadian and anti-Norwegian.

Yes… I live in America. Yeah, you probably don’t agree with me on all things. But I have as much right to claim universal representatation over the US as you do for whatever country you come from. I am not my country’s constitution, not its laws, nor its ultimate expression of its character. I am one voice among many, in a larger democracy. Perhaps not all my ideas will be in the end judged for the best ends, and vice versa, I call foul on the actions on a log of things, traditions, and ever characters.

I do not think, even a Emperor, can lay universal claim of representation or love of all things beneath him.

And yes, the US is by default more unified than China, our autonomous regions are self administered native reservations and a few possessions in the pacific like American Samoa. Half of China is autonomous regions geographically, and one of its provinces, Taiwan, isn’t even under its control. Not to mention the out of control centralizing efforts on Beijing on what we would call a federal level, as well as active insurgency groups being continuously cracked down on and run away corruption the tongs are increasingly controlling on a scale that makes anything the Yakuza ever did laughable.

That is not a assessment if Americanism or at the very least Anti-Anti American Tactics… that’s a assessment that’s common even within the PRC.

19

You’re just being you, unaware that everything you say is just a mouthpiece of the stereotypical American, who thinks he’s different, and for example worries about China as though it were a force that endangers your own country because it’s so very different.
You don’t have to be explicitly referring to any American authority to be this annoying voice that doesn’t realise that it’s just speaking from the same old distinctive clichéd misunderstanding of the world, and analysis of other parts of it from that particular startpoint.
You say you’re a Cosmopolitan - I’m sure the farthest you’ve ever roamed is other parts of the same country, or maybe even Canada if you were feeling adventurous. I seem to have absorbed some information about you going to the middle east as a soldier - perhaps you think that makes you cosmopolitan. Jeez.

I can’t recall which thread this was, when I last made the time-wasting mistake of reading one of your rants - probably to give you the benefit of the doubt since I picked up that you expressed the same distaste towards a certain mod here. I read something about you “bringing out the terminology and long words” and my God, it’s embarrassing when you do. It’s like you don’t know how to use them at all, and you’re just trying to namedrop like any kid tries to do when they want to sound clever to cover up the fact that they ultimately don’t understand what they’re talking about.

Everything you say about China can be applied to America, as though there were no corruption and continuous hunts for those who might seek to actively change the power structures in place in either country. Of course it’s no surprise that you can only comprehend other countries in terms of what you only know from your own experience of the only country you know. If anything it’s the pretense that you’re beyond this that is so counter to any good taste - not to mention the rant presentation and claims of Cynicism that you proudly flaunt as though trying to give anything you say some philosophical credibility. You have to experience the rest of the world before anything you say about it has any meaning.

The “tactic” to which I refer is one that points outward whilst looking inward, turning attention away from American statecraft only in name, to Chinese (which you really can’t conflate with Asian, fyi. As though Asia was all the same lol. You probably think Africa is a country.)

20

Your rant, has nothing to do with this topic. It’s the center pillar of your argument, and has utterly nothing to do with this topic. I will repeat, it has nothing to do with this topic.

Your having a hissy fit because your trying to reconcile me, as being ‘stereotypical of Americans’… I already pointed out to you how absurd this is. I do not live a stereotypical lifestyle reflective of at the very least this generation of Americans. You would be hard press to find a briad social category you can give to a sociologist and honestly point to being atypical without them looking at you sideways.

Your reacting from a duress and inability to comprehend and incorporate diverse packets of information about how people think and why they think. Your always going to be prone to stereotyping people who are NOT LIKE YOU into wide categories, with little endear standing of their individual complexity or social complexities having far more depth than your blanket criteria gives them credit for.

A human being, even under mono group think conditions, are still highly complex individuals. When the Nazis were gassing the Jews… a population they simplified, stereotyped and demonized- much like you towards Americans, they were killing 6 million very unique individuals. We only commemorate the musicians, poets, and doctors who went to their deaths, we have yet to figure out how to make the watchmaker, the baker, the gardener, and the butcher and the bankers as noble in our movies.

Each one of those people had psychological pressures as complex and complicated as any you had in your life. Their skin too felt the relief of the rain, the sorrow and despair if a lost love, the hard knocks of a childhood, of people applauding their jokes. They had objects they cherished, and sunsets they would forever cherish. They also had fear, uncertainty. Empathy. Social constraints and conditioning on behaviors.

I’m a people watcher. I see a sea if flesh, nebulas automata, a unrealized beast machine operating in the midst of its own flapping flesh. I’m not against any particular aspect of this sea. I love the sea, I am of it. But just like a old printed text, rivers start to spout between the conscious thoughts and words if the algorithms we all play by, we become segregated and differ in outward behavior and clothing, in culture and bahavior. Your distrust of me, or ‘Americans’, the Nazis of the ‘Jewish Conspiracy’, the Maoist of the ‘Capitalist Roaders’, many upon many more to be named… it’s a reflection of the trend of hatred and self destruction we wreck upon our own brothers, and our own individual humanity.

To a high degree, looking back to texts like the Ctnic Epistles, a roman era collection on Cynic works, we can see the keen insight the Cynics already had in this era with the paradoxes of identity and the other, of the investigations into society, to seek out the basis of our beliefs, as early sociologists, and to internally digest it, reflecting ourselves and others on that standard. It’s a process that doesn’t straddle the Subjective-Objective divide if modern philosophy, its a horse of a different color completely, and it beckons us to look at a different kind of philosophy.

That other kind is statecraft and strategy… it’s survived into modern times. That is what I use here. They thought patterns that I use is usually associated in our culture with ‘the state’, most Anarchist tend to wretch at it at first glance not comprehending that its a much wider dialectic than they are aware if, and that their tradition is in fact a part if it.

It’s a ancient philosophy with Practicioners as good as Aristotle in it, in fact, he was. The Cynics were a part since those times. In my youth, I gained a early attraction to it and absorbed a lot. When U came across the Cynic works, I was able to quickly identify.

Now… what do I see when I look at China and India? A very ancient play of human nature, a insert position and juxtaposition position if several pass philosophers who show up, speak beyond the grave and disappear just as quickly, chimeras bonded to the ignorant passions of human flesh, flesh in the same sea I swim in. They are all my relatives, and many will produce descendants who will genetically bond in time with what comes after me.

I’m concerned with this musical instrument, the mivung fingers stroking the strings… the motives and intents driving men forward to violence, the acoustics… the deposition of the terrain and tactical synthesis, and the music… the strategy.

The end is always the same, men moving and acting, people die. I’m concerned with the scope, and what comes afterwards. Because in life, we all die- I can’t stop death… but I have a say, a voice, to express how we as human should strive to live… and living alone is intolerable, we always end up looking to one another time and time again.

My objection is never to the individual, the living individual. It’s to how we accept our roles in this ever broadening flower of life, in the shape of every petal we form on our collective organism. It’s a bottom up approach in each and every case, you seek out the good in every individual. Sometimes in compassion, other times through clever themes and games if pretend, the presentation of paradox, the gadfly, and in some intolerable disgusting men you out play them in their own game.

The options are as diverse as the scope of our humanity. The surface area of a flower is greater than the width of it’s total area… and to be a proper Cynic much must in time be folded by the very nature of that same mystery.

Know there is very little that is stereotypical about me, except everything, and by this, nothing. I am the presentation of paradox, yet can always be handled as a fool and imbecile. It’s what makes me approachable and to a degree tolerable. Know the most terrible aspects of our collective thoughts swirl within me, as well as the liveliest and most redeeming. My every failure is a measured ambition reflected in the best of men, and my successes are questionable. I learn, I effect… others carry those effects as I the individual fade away, forgotten.

To be a Cynic you must live with being forgotten for what is most redeeming in you, and despised for the lesson in paradox you are remembered, with the lesson irritably at play in the subconscious. It’s how it’s always been.

Now… You choose this thread. What I said at the beginning, several times, over and over… what you posted had nothing to do with this topic. You used this topic as a proxy, trying to impress your psychological pressures and destress, both triggered and via apparent feedback projected upon, of what is essentially a ‘you problem’.

Your near grasping this, in trying to rodeo the reverse in saying it was me who solicited YOU to post in the CHINESE-INDIAN thread (as it obviously has everything to do with you, as I posted it solely to catch your attention, knowing you were ethnically Indo-Chinese with a house nearby), inflaming you by being stereotypically American by presenting a knowledge of international politics- which is stereotypically Anerica, explaining the phenomena, using elements of statecraft originating in classical authors PRIOR to the birth of Christ, from non-western countries. Because that is sooooo Anerican.

That was very clever of me, how I entrapped you, laid this thread in bait for you, dragged a ancient philosophy like statecraft and cynicism behind me, and then called you out, making you look like a fool and embarrassing you, all because you and I have this deep, personal shared history together and I’ve always had this grudge against you, from ‘that time’… That mythical point in time… and also because I am American, and that’s what we do. We wear cowboy hats and shoot in the air, and don’t grasp how correct and naturally normal and mainstream you actually are. Especially you, the axis mundi of the universe.

So let everyone know, Silhouette caught me red handed, this is not a cry out for help on her end, from psychological pressure if detestation and superiority on her part she doesn’t comprehend. I am exactly as she expressed me as being, I am the phantom, the chimera, the one who is less, and she is the one who is naturally greater, more. Her views and understanding of others us always correct. In the dictionary, her picture is next to normality, and she has it all figured out. If you are of a nationality she does not like, and you express a opinion she doesn’t care for, especially if your one if those Americans, your wrong, and people of every other nationality is automatically aligned with you, Silhouette, in complete agreement, and are right by majority vote.

Silhouette is always right, I am a fool, not even properly the philosophy I claim to follow, the ultimate fraud and hoax, a madman escaped from the madhouse, a mangally dog loose in the run.

Or…

this could be just what it is. You, a person, reacting against the intolerable in another as it challenges you, and you choose this place of all unwise places, to make a stand. Are you ready to look into the mirror? When we challenge another we challenge ourselves. Where is my humanity? As a monster. can I be redeemed? These are alien thoughts, selfishly preserved for ourself. We say this to ourselves, not others. We expect them to understand.

Here I am, your monster, I present myself to you. How much of yourself can you see in me? How much of me is lacking in you? How much of wveryman is lacking in you? Does blood pulse through our veins, or the sands of time? Are we but phantoms of your catatonic desert your unable to incorporate into yourself. There is no one here but you, this text, but swigges in the sands. Wake up