I don’t believe in the death penalty. Executing people for things like their sexual preference just seems especially sick to me. I wonder how Christian leaders can remain silent in the face of this kind of stuff. And to see Christian leaders come out in support of it just leaves me at a loss for words.
Hi f12hte,
It’s been some time since you have posted here.
I certainly don’t see how sexual preference could be judged for execution. This article you have posted a link to is the first I had heard of this. Mr. Green should not being making statements like, more especially for the Christian religion. Is what Mr. Green is proposing for the Ugandan government being pushed as a Christian movement? If so, it shouldn’t be.
I can understand trying to control the HIV AIDS virus, but it should be done through educational means. Though if someone does have AIDS and continues sexual practices without conscionable regard for other’s health concerns, then they should be dealt with. Purposely infecting people with a potentially fatal disease without telling that person they are carrying AIDS or not using protection is in my mind a criminal act.
If the Ugandan Parliament passes the Anti-Homosexual law, then they would be guilty of xenophobic homicide. It surprises me that anything like this would be considered.
Hi litenin,
I’ve read that Ugandan Christians are in favor of the new law in droves, also that Rwanda is considering a similar law. Most HIV on the African continent is transmitted via heterosexual relationships. God, I thought Christianity was past Crusades and Inquisitions.
I don’t think Christianity should get a blanket blame for something that happened in a certain region. That would be like saying all German people were Nazis. It just wouldn’t be a true representation.
As I had said in my above reply, that was the first I had heard of such a thing. Christian leaders should be more responsible in how they present themselves, because they put followers of Christianity on the same pedestal as they. Not to mention the position God gets placed due to them being agents of Him. Man seems to a millstone around religion’s neck sometimes.
Those people in the regions of Africa are reacting through fear. When you don’t control your fears, you will almost certainly fail in your endeavors. An example of this is when Jesus stepped of the fishing boat and walked on water. When Peter tried and got frightened he started sinking due to his loss of faith which Jesus was trying to instill in all of his diciples. Dealing with problems with rational, calm thinking will more ofte present positive results. Reacting with fear usually yields haphazard results.
“I don’t think Christianity should get a blanket blame for something that happened in a certain region.”
Well, yes, just because a Christian person committed a murder does not mean that all Christians are murderers. But I got to thinking, these Ugandan Christians embraced the religion due to the work of Christians teaching them. The earliest of these people were likely missionaries and not native speakers of the language. Perhaps this slipped in because of some ambiguity in their delivery. Perhaps it was due to some misunderstanding among the teachers. I sometimes fear that church leaders say “aw don’t worry about it, the Holy Spirit will make sure that everything turns out OK.” Now that may be true to a certain extent, but surely the Lord gave us a brain to some purpose. We can’t abdicate our responsibility. I mean maybe missions need a way to check to make sure that their message was correctly received. Maybe they need to send more missionaries to correct the flock’s way of thinking. If it was important to send missionaries to bring them Christianity in the first place, isn’t it at least as important to send them teachers when they start killing each other because of their religious convictions? Pundits suspect that this law will pass, based on widespread Christian support. So it seems somebody messed up and something’s got to be fixed. We can’t just say that the devil snuck in and messed everything up. Wouldn’t that be irresponsible?
I think before anyone jumps to an assumption about why a party in Uganda is proposing this law, folks might want to check cultural politics and religious practices of Uganda first.
Perceptions and interpretations vary from person to person. This is true for Christians too. I have found people here on ILP who claim Christianity as their religious faith, don’t believe in the same tenets as me. Christianity has many factions who believe their doctrinal belief system is the right one.
Their problem is they don’t let God’s Will prevail in their actions. So, they let their moral relativistic justifications be their guide. Rather than pray for answers, they are quick to judge and disseminate thoughts contrary to God’s Ways. Being human usually will produce mistakes which sometimes are continued until we allow God direct our thinking. If one doesn’t keep close ties to God to let their moral standards be the guiding force for their actions, then people will suffer.
More often than not, we forget we are all brother’s and sister’s spiritually. This should extend into our physical existence to reflect as good works in every regard. We are all guilty of selfish tendencies. If we don’t extend ourselves as good representatives of God we can’t obtain spiritual oneness with God. Sometimes we fail due to letting our indignant misguided thinking stand up for God. We don’t need to get mad for God, He can take care of Himself. People that follow the Christian Faith should be kind, gentle representives with compassionate hearts. What we give unselfishly will be repayed to us many fold spiritually.
More to the point there Lit; few absolutely agree on what God’s Will is.
If Christianity is the basis for that law trying to be instituted, then I think it should be challenged. I don’t think God would want people with homosexual proclivities to be killed under any circumstances. If the spreading of HIV was done maliciously, then that particular act should be dealt with. Of course, proving intent would be a tough row to hoe.
My feeling is if someone prays with a true heart for an answer to a complex question, I believe the answer will come. Receiving epipahnies from God doesn’t come without vigilance of prayer in my opinion.
And then we have the problem of what a “true heart” is and isn’t, and then as well, when someone does this by their believing and what they hear back from God in their heart’s is 180 degree’s from what someone else heard morally.
There’s no absolute here…there’s just people; billions of them.
The Ugandan situation is directly tied to the “Family”. The Family is a secret fundamentalist group of powerful U.S. congressmen with direct ties to Ugandan politicians. It is much uglier than anything said here so far. The proposed law isn’t just about killing homosexuals, there is also a provision of jail sentences if you fail to report a suspected homosexual. You can use your imagination to fill in the blanks. It is nothing more than a modern version of the inquisition driven by homophobia. The so-called “christian” (we HAVE to use that term loosely) U.S. politicians have encouraged the Ugandans to take up their ultra-conservative “christian” views.
Africa has two factors that make this nightmare possible. The first is abysmal lack of education. The second is a long history of believing in witchcraft. The stage is set. This same upswelling of “christianity” has created thousands of deaths of children accused of witchcraft who are often mutilated (to cast out demons) and either killed or orphaned by families who don’t want a “witch” among them or are fearful of being accused of witchcraft themselves.
Ignorance is a terrible disease, and ultra-conservative “christians” are taking full advantage of that ignorance to spread their hate message.
It isn’t any different than the muslim extremists who convince young uneducated people to commit suicide for the glory of god.
Religion can be a powerful tool for good or evil. At this time in history, much of religion has given in to the exploitation of fear and ignorance. If there is a god, I’m sure he is impressed.
God’s will pales before social considerations of how to maintain the state’s integrity. We , in the supposedly Christian USA, support war and capital punishment while screaming about the horrors of abortion, when very few pro-lifers would be willing to pay for the support of "unwanted"children-- the unaffordable, the incestial, the criminally produced infant. When a society considers its own preservation as more important than that of its citizens, it cannot be said to follow the will of any compassionate God.
“People that follow the Christian Faith should be kind, gentle representives with compassionate hearts.”
Many good points here, but my question is what can I, as a professing Christian, do to abate this madness? Do I have a responsibility here or not? Do non-believers have a social responsibility here or not? Does God want us to tell Him to do something, or does God want us to listen for queues as to what we can do?
You know…you bring about a good point here…
More ambiguously, I wonder…are large portions of Africa going through the equivalent of the western civilizations own dark ages?
Keeping in mind, at one point, Africa was the hot bed of culture and science.
Then it lapsed, and it lapsed hard.
But perhaps Africa moves on a slower cycle than the west.
We know Asia works on a different cycle of civilization evolution.
Perhaps Africa moves on it’s own cycle.
Perhaps the west isn’t any more complete or advanced, just instead cycling faster (which means we’ll hit things that suck real hard faster too btw…wee!)
So perhaps…what we have to look forward in the future is an Africa that comes out of it’s own dark age and moves forward with it’s own sciences and industrialization’s and revolutions of society?
If you feel strongly about this you could try to find an email address for Mr. Green or the Ugandan government as well as other Christians who feel this decision is wrong and ask them to pray for guidance concerning this law. Also find newspapers and other media to bring it to their attention that this an irresponsible action being taken.
It would seem that secular minded people would see this as something that should be dealt with. You don’t have to be religious to see this law affects people’s rights.
I would have to suggest that God knows of this situation and would probably want His children (all of us) to intervene in a reasoning manner to avert a potential tragedy like this. I doubt that if this law passes the spread of the HIV infection would decrease very much by inflicting a death penalty upon the homosexual population there. Identifying and education infected people will do more that using fear tactics.
Ugandans are, like most of Africa, hyper-sensitive to “advice” from the western world. They don’t particularly like us and resent us “meddling” in their affairs. It’s one of the rewards we earned from colonialization. Entreaties for reason will be primarily ignored, whether from religious or secular western sources. Even Rick Warren who has denounced the proposed laws is being ignored and accused of watering down his previous stance of supporting the very people who proposed this law. This is one where there is little that could be done short of economic sanctions, and that ain’t bloody likely.
If nothing else, Christians of all creeds need to learn to be careful of being fools who go where angels fear to tread… Good intentions aren’t enough. There has to be cultural understanding before supporting any particular position in a different culture.
It migh have been possible had it not been for colonialization. The western powers created an artificial stability in order to loot the continent. There are too many people and not enough infrastructure. There are still enough resources but little educated management. I don’t see Africa in any sort of gradual development. Perhaps with massive committment to education there is a chance, but it would take three generations to have any lasting effect. I would agree that in too many ways, Africa is in the dark ages, but we helped create it. Education is the only real answer, but you can’t educate the mind on an empty stomach or watch 30% of the population die from aids. Africa, like the rest of an over-populated world, needs a big die-back to start over. Perhaps then real growth is possible.
I think there is gradual development in Africa actually.
It’s soceital though.
Roles are being defined, and they are learning how to live as a larger group instead of several inner groups around each other.
Lots of horrible things are happening to cause this type of reaching, but for instance there’s one place in Africa (sorry, I can’t recall the exact location; this was a natgeo special) where the accused stands among the people of the area and people from the area speak out for and against them; not regarding the crime exactly, though the prosecuting public does this; but for the “defenders” they are just bearing his character worth.
So the judges, which there is a panel instead of one judge, hears the case of his deeds against his character worth and makes a decision of innocence, teaching, or needing punishment for justification.
They do this last not to try to correct their behavior, but as the natural cost attributed to their actions.
As such, they have been able to prosecute what they consider war criminals respectively in order.
It is their order, but it is an order.
And it’s things like this that tell me that they are developing, because they are striving to build a house of reason and justice with the betterment for the large consensus as the focus.
That’s the start of everything good in the long run.