[size=112]On Nov. 28th of 2012, Bill O’Reilly had the President of American Atheists, David Silverman, on his Fox News program, “The O’Reilly Factor”. The subject was ‘the war on Christmas’. First off, the idea of even having this conversation is already ridiculous from jump street. But, this time Bill slips up big time by this outrageous comment:
“Christianity is not a religion, it is a philosophy.” [/size]
[size=130]Bill O’Reilly, “Christianity is not a religion, it is a philosophy”
Bill Wiltrack, “Christianity is not a religion, it is a philosophy”[/size]
[size=112]If you believe in the philosophy of economic opportunity, if you believe in America, if you believe in Democracy, you already believe in the concepts & contracts of Organized Labor.
Max Anderson runs an excellent site: unionlabel.com/ for union made & American made clothing. These items make excellent Christmas gifts.
* After a few years my family understands that I only buy and keep union-made Christmas gifts. This alone kind of extends my philosophy of belief in the inherent good of Organized Labor.
Merry Christmas to all of you and remember Christmas is a philosophy. [/size]
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…[/size][size=140]How I spend my time while being banned[/size]
Christianity isn’t a philosophy, it is a kind of artistic expression of how people have understood the world in the past - and still do. Just as you wouldn’t get upset about a play or a novel, a drawing or painting, a song or a poem, you shouldn’t need to get upset about Christianity.
In fact I think that as a work of art, Christianity has something compelling.
I think it is a philosophy. What is a philosophy? A philosophy can be defined as “the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.” (Dictionary.com)
Is that not what any religion tries to do? If the Bible could be written in the most simplest way it would say “don’t be a jerk”.
If that is so, then it explains why most of the epics in world history are about human conflict. In fact, it is only through conflict that mankind progresses - albeit better if the conflict is less violent and more a conflict of understanding which is born out on the basis of discussion and reflection. Stories of all kinds are trying to surprise us, and by doing so, they educate us on some level, whether emotionally, rationally or spiritually. Stories like the soaps of today are in fact tedious and boring, and they do not help us in any way, because they cannot educate us.
The “violence” in the stories of the great traditions has a role to play and shouldn’t simply be taken at face value. It usually invokes an emotional response like yours, the question is, whether you stay there or use that response to further your experience and wisdom. It can be an analogy for other conflicts, perhaps on a cosmic level, or between forces unseen, presumed or suspected which effect the lives of human beings.
Really, we just have to be adult about it and not expect religious stories to be fairy tales where nobody gets hurt.
Very interesting, and what is so different about your theory from mine - except that you have gone into detail?
I don’t appreciate your presumptive insult at the beginning of your post and considering my deep involvement with the “issues of the world” which hinders me to write regularly on a philosophy forum, I think you should reconsider the way you enter into conversations. The whole religious discussion is full of galling repeats and half-knowledge, so I assume you just forgot yourself, but it doesn’t encourage discussion.
Jamesy is just being himself. He is one of the “knowers” with no questions only answers. He has no other way to respond to anyone because only he and those who agree with him are “in the know”. Ignore him and his pontifications.
The OP misses half of the equation. Yes, there is a philosophy behind any religion, but the main thrust of any religion is salvation. Every religion offers a path to what is “right” after having done all that is “wrong”. Religion is the “second chance” for the sinful individual. That religion has been twisted into much that is ugly, inhumane, peppered with malice aforethought, greed, and all the other human frailties is a comment about the practitioners and not the inspired intent that formed the base of those religions. One can focus on the failures of religion - and there are many - or one can look to the wisdom learned by people over the centuries.
Christianity is more than a philosophy. Much more.
Whilst I agree with you, I have come to differentiate between the “school” and the “life” philosophies, which I believe is what Paul was pointing at when saying that the Gospel doesn’t appeal to (“school”) Philosophers. I believe that this Salvation bit has been overdone by the churches who were using fear to gain obedience, but originally Judaism and Christianity were about stories of life. Even some of the biblical Prophets are said to have struggled with the professional Prophets on the same question and tradition has it, that many were killed.
The whole thing about Jesus is his showing the Jews that they had a wrong idea of liberation. All the religious practises that the Pharisees were suggesting, the religious fervour in his own followers, the desire for miracles and healing in the crowds, they all forgot that life happens on a different level – a spontaneous level of interaction and compassion. All the ideologies and schemes of groups: the extremists, the terrorists, the militarists, the religionists … they all miss the level of interconnection which is what life really is, when the “-ists” have shot off their load of ammunition and the dust settles.
It was probably Paul and his followers who turned the Jesus Movement into a religion, and the original aim of liberation became salvation. It was a reconnecting with the sacrifice of the temple cult, but whether Jesus would have understood himself in that way is questionable. It is just curious that Mark wrote his “Gospel” as a tragedy in the traditional Greek style and left it a mystery. This was obviously not what some people wanted and so legends were added. The thing is, these later Gospels were compositions with underlying agendas, but they are all not records or accounts, but stories. Paul didn’t mention anything in them – and had no regard for the historical Jesus.
Therefore, if Christianity is a philosophy, then only in a lose understanding of the term and mainly based on the (edited) writings of Paul, supported by the Gospel of John, which transports much of Paul’s ideas. But Jesus told parables and was looking for the awakening of his listeners – which has been the practise of good teachers in all traditions.
Understanding IS those details. It wasn’t “presumption”.
…quite the opposite.
Presumptuous people never appreciate the details of understanding. That is what makes them presumptuous, the very seed of sin/error and the cause of all evil in the world.
I perceive a mindset within you just as you do with me (not that either of us is necessarily right). But what I perceive is that in order to discuss most issues with you (and especially with V-out), I would have to jump through tremendous hoops and tangents merely to eventually get back to the point at hand which probably wasn’t all that important to begin with. And even after going through all of that, very little, if anything, would change.
It is much simpler to just state my opinion with whatever reasoning I think I might be able to display in a brief manner and then let you do your presuming as you will. I don’t expect progress and very little change. People can certainly learn, but forums inspire very little of that. On forums, just as with those too wealthy and free to act their will, people just don’t care.
Oh com’on bro James, yer just being dramatic. I’ve learned tons on forums. It’s one of my main reasons for being on forums.
And I’m sorry if some of your statements require laborious work to explain. If so I understand why you wouldn’t waste your time. But don’t say it’s because we don’t want to learn.
Hope you had a nice Christmas with family. How many grandchildren now? Two? Three?
Yes, what Jesus presented as a call to a different perspective of “how shall we live” could easily be considered a philosophy of life. That it was turned into a “religion” by the agendas of all those who followed is a story in itself. Still, those who look for the wisdom of millenia, Christianity still offers much. I suppose it depends on what we choose to see. I found it easy to reject the religion, but only a fool cannot take away the lessons taught by generation after generation of people struggling to make sense of their world. It’s true that salvation was mis-used by the early church and has been the “go-to” meme ever since, but the hope of not being condemned for our weaknesses is both strong and beautiful expressions of our will to live and to be good examples of what humanity is capable.
