Christianity - why is it still around?

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
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Does anyone have any idea why this religion has so much power over the whole globe?

Is it because it was forced thru colonialism and christendom all over the planet, if so . . . why are there still so many followers in 2006? Is it pure tradition or something in the doctrine?

Is it because Jesus is some kind of modern “Alpha Male” figure that replaced our local tribes, “Alpha Male” from hunting and gathering times? Just a different idea that came in my mind the other day, any comments?

Is it because it makes sense to many people, and there is little thought needed to follow? “I screwed up, Jesus will fix it, cause he died for me.” Or is it because it is functional in some other way?

So, here we are in 2006 (. . . after Christs death) age of computers and Scientific formula . . . Why do you think this religion is still so powerful?

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maybe people actually see some good things happen because of religion, and they aren’t just ignorantly being brain washed with no reward.

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Because it’s claims are true.

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Have you ever thought that some people have religious experiences that solidify faith? You may find it hard to believe, but some people do not consider reason and rationality to encompase all possible knowledge and have experiences which affirm this belief.

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in short: read nietzsche’s “on the genealogy of morals” (there are free online copies if you want)

in long: (from brian leiter’s commentary on GM)
1: suffering is a central fact of the human condition
2: meaningless suffering is unbearable and leads to suicidal nihilism
3: the ascetic ideal gives meaning to suffering, thereby seducing the majority of humans back to life, ie. it maximises their feeling of power within the constraints of their existential situation.

priests basically say: “we know why you suffer; it’s because you are naughty. come and find out how you are naughty and gain understanding (power) over it (we will even reward you with an eternal lack of suffering)”

if you had experience,. then reason and rationality would affirm your belief.

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People have experiences they can’t explain, and they automatically chalk it up to ‘religious’.

As for the original question in this thread: It’s still the most powerful form of control… by far.

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O_G,

Not all people. Believe it or not, there are rational, intelligent people who are also religious.

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Sorry I should have specified.

That type of scenario doesn’t apply for EVERYONE

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Because people would rather believe something rather than nothing, all over the globe…

What due you mean by ‘religion’?

There are religions other than Christianity, there are colonialists other than western Christians…

That’s bullshit. Jesus wasn’t anything even approximating what is meant by the ‘Alpha male’ figure…

Again, you seem only to be talking about Christianity and therefore I imagine you are just another kid from North America or Western Europe who wants to react against what he perceives as the norm. Most beliefs systems require nothing other than faith in the initial premises (i.e. very little ‘thought’ indeed) in order to follow them, this isn’t in any way exclusive to religions, in particular Christianity.

Because science has proved itself to not be all it was cracked up to be when we first started this ‘reason’ kick in the mid 18th century…

I could explain it to you but I don’t think that you’d understand the answer. I’m prepared to be proven wrong about my description above but I’ve heard so many say ‘religion’ when all they mean is their own vague impression of Christianity and nothing more and it would be a waste of my writing time and your reading time for me to elaborate further…

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Ah, yes, of course, funny to notice that… Methinks it is because Christianity comes in so many different shapes and forms, that it can be molded according to everyone’s expectations. Christianity is the comfy refuge for the warm(weak) hearted familist type who seeks shelter from the maelstrom of daily living, it is the challenging effort meant to bend destructive forces of nature that cause suffering for the Mother Theresa kind of person, it also appears as the whimsical image of the Absolute for the idealist existentialist thrill-seeker type, such as Kierkegaard. You can approach Christianity from different angles, with little fear of being denied.

In fact, there are so many angles, that today everyone has his own image of how Christianity should be, there is so much writing done on it, by the most competent of people, and there is such an encompassing historical background to lean on, that you will be able to defend your side of the story with little effort, no matter what side of the barricade you are on. Christianity today lies in the eye of the beholder, if I may be granted to say so. My prediction is that in the future, anyone who happens to have an objection to an existing dogma shall rise and form his own Christian church and proceed with the preachings.

Heh… I gather that Christianity has enough dignity left in it not to make a mere icon figure out of Jesus.

It is not Jesus who “fixes it”. Jesus doesn’t fix problems, he is not a spiritual plumber, nor a guru. He fixes not screw-ups, but people. Indeed, this is supposed to be the greatest miracle of Christianity yet so far: not the changing of water into wine, nor the resurrection of Lazarus… but the transformation of man through the Holy Spirit, gaining spiritual greatness via penitence and humbleness, and being born again in the letter of the Truth.

Ironically, my opinion is that Christianity was more powerful 2000 years ago when it had just a couple of thousand adepts, than it is now, when a large segment of the world’s population calls itself by the name Christian.

“To be powerful” is to fight your way into existence. Power is given not by your status, but by your struggle to achieve it. In the early days, Christianity was, indeed, an impressive force. Its influence stemmed from the devotion of its followers, which was total and at first hand. Back then, the Church was a combative church, it had spirit, wielding as arsenal the word of Christ. Back then, Christ was still identified with Christianity.

As it grew (not that this is a bad thing), the Church adopted a more static position, until it turned into what we see today as the triumphant Church, a kingdom from this world and of this world. Today, Christ has been replaced by the words of the preachers, and Christianity has become more of a formality, a “taking into consideration” of the word of God, which is essentially undesirable.

To conclude, my opinion is that as long as the Earth revolves around its axis, Christianity will never be superseded. How much will it owe to an inertiatic impulse, I don’t know. What is sure is that Christ will always inspire and gain followers, only by the power of His example.

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Mucius, you’ve made several important points…

but I don’t see how you use them to conclude that “as long as the Earth revolves around its axis, Christianity will never be superseded.”

That’s a pretty bold claim, as you must be aware.

You said yourself that Christianity itself was stronger 2000 years ago than it is today. I feel that the religious teaching itself is straying farther and farther from the central tenets that initially justify its faith.

Across all religious faiths, in fact, there seems to be an emerging philosophy of what Christian Smith calls “Moralistic Therapeutic Deism”. After studying extensively the religious beliefs of teenagers in America, he found several recurring themes across all races, religious backgrounds, and social groups.

First, that God exists.

He exists and he created the world, but there seems to be a sense of inactivity in the world. A distant observer, God intervenes in life only when we have problems.

Most teenagers believe God to be some sort of cosmic psychologist, who we turn to when things are bad and act for him to help us with our problems. In contrast, teenagers for the most part fail to attribute the good things in life to God’s work.

Second, that God wants us to be nice to eachother.

This is the crux of modern religious belief. Moral control. In justifying human behavior, religion is still the most prevalent form of moral influence. This is pretty much the most important application of God and religion in the world today.

Lost are many concepts that led to the Christian belief in the first place- the trunity, the ressurection, divine grace, a deep sense of faith- all these things are lost, and unnecessary for modern religion. As long as we are nice to each other, we are good Christians. Or rather, good Moralistic Therapeutic Deists.

His study is interesting and I think it is relevant to this discussion. Like you said, this recent revelation is undesirable and is a departure from the teachings of true Christianity. Religion is becoming less of a question of mystery, grace, and faith, and more of a conduit for human action, right and wrong.

My line of thinking departs from yours in thinking that mankind will never overcome the religious conduit for morality. I believe that morality exists outside of religion (perhaps a matter for another thread, but I digress), and that it is only a matter of time before we take morals out of the divine sphere completely and realize that it is under our own power.

This would be a natural progression from what we have seen in the past: things that were previously attributed to the unknown, or to God, were discovered and explained in human terms. Once this happens, we no longer need God to explain these things to us.

The Greeks thought that Zeus was the cause of thunder, lightning, and the weather. Then, as we progressed and learned more about the world, we found that the weather was a natural phenomenon, one that oculd be observed and measured by human beings.

The Jews held that God had an important say in the things we did and the things we ate. This belief is reflected in the Sabbath and in Kosher foods. God told us that we can’t exert ourselves on the Sabbath, and we can’t eat foodsthat aren’t Kosher.

Christianity was the next progression, and it saw humanity taking these things that God used to control and now giving them back to humans. We no longer obseved a strict day of rest nor did we deny our capability of being able to eat what we want.

I think it is only a matter of time until morality is taken our of the religious sphere and entrusted to human nature. And I think when that happens, the modern following of Christianity will dissolve.

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check this out. those increasingly atheistic countries are going to do themselves in!

Article

I would disagree with that statement, jesus’ ascension closely resembles that of Osiris.

Think about what Jesus is… he’s the god/son of man sent to earth to save us from ourselves. If that’s not the ultimate alpha male what is.

As men we are constantly struggling to help our family and save them. Jesus accomplishes that, thus makes an easy follow.

you take away the something of christianity (or any religion) you’ll very unlikely to replace it with nothing. Some switch to another cult, like Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, etc. Some switch to being agnostic/mystic/buddhists… and others become atheists that put a high value on human life

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An alpha male is looked up to as a dominant leader, and those beneath him are submissive to him.

While men are in a sense submissive to Jesus Christ, he lives by example whereas an alpha male lives by power over the rest of the males in his group.

We idolize Jesus because of the virtues that he possessed and the wonderful things that he supposedly did, and we strive to live in his example.

“Beta” males do not try to live up to the example of alpha males per se, but rather they accept themselves as inferior and live a different kind of life. Whereas both an alpha male and Jesus are “kings”, they rule their subjects in very different ways and through very different methods.

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Mr Clean,you say:

  When man takes morality out of the sphere of religion, and this has already been accomplished somewhere in "Heaven on Earth"(the communist and Nazi one), the so-called morality entitles him to anything from a wide range of physical and mental torments. That is because outside sacredness and religion morality is but a tool for the Ubermensch to rule the week ones.Morality is so organicly bonded to religion, that any artificial attempt to break the original wholeness would only mean to replace a communion betweeen people touched by a sacred gleam with a man-made social contract that can always be broken.

  Mais, retournons a nos moutons...Christianity is still"around" and,as dear Mucius puts it,

because it not only reveals the absurdity of existence and the drudgery to draw our life from a day to another ,but it also gives a way to surpass the dreadful Nausea, and even to turn our dull lives to holy. Rationalists and Darwinists may laugh at the sight of the word “holy”, but it is nevertheless a dimension of existence, though experienced by few.The grandeur of Christianity lies in its aplicability to every human background and set of experineces.THis is why

.However, the fact that

is not quite true. It doesn’t “come in different shapes and forms”, like some supermarket cereals, but everyone perceives it differently, which doesn’t mean, of course, that its essence is mutable.Christianity is one in the same, but every man integrates it in its own background differently.
All in all, Chrisitianity is not a"comfy refuge", but a bastion of the ones who are brave enough to taken upon themselves the decision to believe.[/code]

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Dear scythekain,

This article is all nonsense. What one sees in Europe and the surrounding area is not only the proliferation of super-liberal policies and beliefs but also a rising fundamentalism (Derrida, 2000) that has seen fascism return to the European political spectrum.

Someone who rules and controls, rather than saves through the grace of God, perhaps?

You don’t know Jesus (this is the title of a song by Mogwai, incidentally)

You have a very narrow view of what it is to be a ‘man’.

Of course. The point is that human culture has never survived without religion and any talk of giving up religion (as in a recent Richard Dawkins documentary) is fruitless and masturbatory…

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I agree with that for other reasons, I think muslim fundamentalism will rise over the liberalism in Europe in the coming years, if not for the reason of the lack of babies liberals produce.

Someone like the “king of kings”? Someone like a scapegoat that shoulders the responsibility of our mistakes?

and you’ve met the man behind the curtain?

well that was some serious generalisation I admit. but generally men are expected to shoulder the responsibility of the actions of their family.

I’m not religious and I agree with you. It’s for the following reasons:

Religion promotes propagation. It makes birth control, abortion, homosexuality sins (can you name a religion that doesn’t?) and pretty much decrees that sex is for procreation purposes only.

The non-religious practice birth control methods, and have fewer children. They also don’t speak against non-reproductive sex, thusly more people take part in non-reproductive sex.

Thusly, any society that drops religion without some sort of replacement that still makes having children important will dissapear. The chinese didn’t have that problem, (probably due to different philosophies on sex, or the lack of birth control?) during their communist (which is an atheist philosophy.) regime.

here’s another possibility;

Maybe we should be lessening the amount of children we have? The resources and space on the earth is limited, and it may be ideal until the population comes down to a level the earth can support to lower the growth of the human race to as close to zero as possible.

Of course if you think that you are going to be raptured up into heaven at any minute the future of the earth matters very little, right? (or am I wrong?)

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Reasons Christianity is still around

1} Its dogma is sufficiently ambiguous and poetic that it allows for interpretations and reinterpretations through the ages. It is adaptive.

2} Its dogma is attractive to the masses of ignorant, needy minds that find in it reasons for hope and self-aggrandizement, turning their subconscious self-loathing, fear and uncertainty into an indirect self-love through the conception of God.

3} It serves the needs of an overpopulated world, that must be indoctrinated into an all-loving, compassionate, tolerant system, so as to maintain discipline in a shrinking world with no accessible new frontiers.

4} It was an ideology that was fortunate enough to infect, mutate and/or supplant a Hellenic culture, which eventually came to dominate the Earth.

5} It preaches a strict, authoritarian and paternalistic dogma, which enforces discipline through a series of threats and promises. This negates any straying.

6} Like all major religions, it has associated itself with seats of political power, supporting them and being supported by them in alliances of mutual dependency.

7} It feeds on the fears, hopes of a growing human throng, who cannot think for themselves and so require quick and easy answers to their metaphysical concerns.

8} It provides absolutes in a universe with none.

9} Chance.

=D>

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Dear scythekain,

Doubt it, really. There aren’t that many Islamic fundamentalists here…

You don’t really get it, do you?

I know the Jesus of the Bible. That isn’t the one that you’ve presented.

So are women…

Tell me, which country do you come from and when was the last time you visited a different continent?

Look up Hinduism…

I’ve no idea either way

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I wouldn’t count your chickens before they hatch. Besides weren’t the tunnel bombers fundamentalist muslims that were born in England?

not your version of christ no. You have an interpretation that doesn’t match what I see christ as. You see him as the saviour of sin. I simply rename him the scapegoat of responsibility. It’s merely a matter of semantics. don’t fret too much over it.

You know the Jesus of your interpretation of the bible. Look at the interpretation the Waconians had. They were ready to do war with the US, for being too liberal. Look at Manson. he killed for christ.

To say that you know the Jesus of the bible is nothing but a red herring, it’s meaningless, as their are millions of jesus’ of the bible.

Not as much as men especially in our society. After all, god was created in our image.

not recently enough unfortunately. though, how does stating that prove what I said wrong? The only societies that survive are those that promote sex, and promote a certain variety of sex that produces children. Is that really that surprising?

Let’s look North and South… Canadians (32,569.394) are very socialistic and are advocate about family planning and homosexual rights. There population is not even that of California (33,871,648).

Then we have Mexico(106,202,903). They are strictly catholic, and are adamant against anything but hetero- child producing sex. Thusly they have nearly 3 times the population of Canada. The resources are also far far lower than both canada and california. The land available for resources (oil, farming, etc) is far far lower than california and canada (canada by far.)

But we can see from these statistics that canadians if they suddenly have a negative birth rate will eventually be replaced by Mexicans. That’s just the nature of things.

the religious produce more children, and thusly will outlast the atheists.

I wasn’t aware hinduism spoke about family planning issues and homosexuality. From what I understood, it was against homosexuality like all other religions. Could be mistaken on that. Certainly it would be a dichotomy as if they are okay with homosexuality they have a population equal to China.

Well do you think you could think about it? I’m curious about you’re opinion on that issue.

Certainly you can’t think that as India and China (which each have over a billion people) come up to the same standards that the rest of the western world has, that the world can realistically support such a sustained drain for very long.

(btw in case you were wondering:

United Kingdom — Population: 60,441,457)

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Indeed, haste makes waste.

I am even more aware now, that you have pointed it out. Thank you.

If you may read the entire paragraph, you might notice that it is written in a slightly ironical approach. Of course Christianity isn’t supposed to be like that, but, surprise, it is. How do we reconciliate the two situations, then, eh ?

Everyone claims to believe, but few grasp the the essence of what believing implies.

My concern is with this particular statement. I am seriously trying to imagine what it would be like if man, in general, assumed for himself the condition of moral pillar. Morality is like a hot potatoe - it is hard to keep in hand when you have no gloves. Of course that reading Nietzsche makes your fingers sizzle, but this always happens within a civilised, kept-under-control environment, where rebellion does make you different. In the conditions of a universal outbreak of egos, though, I am skeptic about the outcome. At best, it would become a live-feed ILP, with self-proclaimed moderators.

My take is that this won’t happen, though, and Christianity will have an important role in keeping the world an accessible place. Christianity, as I have said, is today more of an institution in itself than a “hard to conquer bastion” People, as SIATD said, would rather believe in something than nothing, and I would add that most people prefer believing in something that doesn’t seriously disturb theyr quiet, safe spot within theyr inner garden. Asserting that Christianity is a refuge is, indeed a mockery and a blasphemy, but this is sadly what we are confronted with. I am not being mean, I am just saying what I see everyday in the world around me.

However, there is an ammendment to this. A culture cannot survive only due to an inertiatic impulse, however strong that may be. Frictions will eventually wear it down and sand it down, no matter how well oiled the mechanism is. A culture does not survive and we must no judge it by its average, but by its peaks, for it is these who give it form and renew the original desire. A culture always preserves itself in its high achievers and it survives as long as high achievers are able to emerge from it. In this sense, Christianity has a deep advantage in that it is enormously stimulative for open spirits. How much this a result of direct divine revelation, the incarnation of God on earth, or a well thought-gimmick, it is not an easy thing to decide.

I trust I have made myself as obscure as to have something to edit when I get home. Cheers.