Christians acting unchristian

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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Jesus said

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal…

and

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Monks brawl at Christian holy site in Jerusalem

By MATTI FRIEDMAN
The Associated Press
Sunday, November 9, 2008; 10:05 AM

JERUSALEM – Israeli police rushed into one of Christianity’s holiest churches Sunday and arrested two clergyman after an argument between monks erupted into a brawl next to the site of Jesus’ tomb.

The clash between Armenian and Greek Orthodox monks broke out in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, revered as the site of Jesus’ crucifixion, burial and resurrection.

The brawling began during a procession of Armenian clergymen commemorating the 4th-century discovery of the cross believed to have been used to crucify Jesus.

The Greeks objected to the march without one of their monks present, fearing that otherwise, the procession would subvert their own claim to the Edicule _ the ancient structure built on what is believed to be the tomb of Jesus _ and give the Armenians a claim to the site.

The Armenians refused, and when they tried to march the Greek Orthodox monks blocked their way, sparking the brawl.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said police were forced to intervene after fighting was reported. They arrested two monks, one from each side, he said.

A bearded Armenian monk in a red-and-pink robe and a black-clad Greek Orthodox monk with a bloody gash on his forehead were both taken away in handcuffs after scuffling with dozens of riot police.

Six Christian sects divide control of the ancient church. They regularly fight over turf and influence, and Israeli police are occasionally forced to intervene.

“We were keeping resistance so that the procession could not pass through … and establish a right that they don’t have,” said a young Greek Orthodox monk with a cut next to his left eye.

The monk, who gave his name as Serafim, said he sustained the wound when an Armenian punched him from behind and broke his glasses.

Father Pakrat of the Armenian Patriarchate said the Greek demand was “against the status quo arrangement and against the internal arrangement of the Holy Sepulcher.” He said the Greeks attacked first.

Archbishop Aristarchos, the chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox patriarchate, denied his monks initiated the violence.

After the brawl, the church was crowded with Israeli riot police holding assault rifles, standing beside Golgotha, where Jesus is believed to have been crucified, and the long smooth stone marking the place where tradition holds his body was laid out.

The feud is only one of a bewildering array of rivalries among churchmen in the Holy Sepulcher.

The Israeli government has long wanted to build a fire exit in the church, which regularly fills with thousands of pilgrims and has only one main door, but the sects cannot agree where the exit will be built.

A ladder placed on a ledge over the entrance sometime in the 19th century has remained there ever since because of a dispute over who has the authority to take it down.

More recently, a spat between Ethiopian and Coptic Christians is delaying badly needed renovations to a rooftop monastery that engineers say could collapse.

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Hi Felix,

I’ve just seen the report in television - what is wrong with these people?

Shalom

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Felix,

Jesus was speaking to our spiritual nature and well-being. He wasn’t addressing how to practice religion, but how to practice life.

Religion has nothing to do with what Jesus asked of all human beings. The people involved in the Israeli fracas are merely christians, not followers of Jesus.

Look around you. The pattern is the same where ever you find christian or any other religion.

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Jesus wasn’t Ghandi.
I’m not quite sure where that idea comes from.

Everyone seems to forget that Jesus allegedly tossed the coin exchangers table in the Jerusalem temple.

You might as well have just walked into the IRS and ripped the plug out of their entire filing system computer network; but in a temple…but that’s the effect it would have had.

Or that he preached, commonly, on the steps of the Temple, not that was exactly out of place, but that he did so with his message.
That would be like standing on the steps of Congress and preaching of communism.

It’s not really “passive” in the slightest.

Never mistake or forget that there was a political Jesus just as much as the religious one, and the political one was quite aggressive.

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Gandhi’s non-violent method was inspired by Jesus’ life and teaching. Jesus taught people to treat others as you would have them treat you, love enemies, act with compassion to all, never to kill, forgive, turn the other cheek and trust God. His actions illustrated his teaching again and again.

However, Jesus did not teach submissive obeisance but rather active non-violence. Driving the money changers out of the temple was a demonstration of Jesus’ moral authority. There is no evidence that he hurt anyone. On the other hand it may have been the act that convinced authorities that he posed a threat and must be executed. Characteristically, he did not resist when he was arrested.

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Speaking as someone who sees the Gospel as a myth, the temple is here symbolic of the human (as the likes of St. Paul and Meister Eckhart are fully aware), and the throwing out of the salesmen from the temple is symbolic of clearing out those negative hedonistic and materialistic notions associated with money, goods, and trading from a person. We might also associate these negative elements existing in man with the ‘Whore of Babylon’ from Revelation (or rather the mindset that they are born from - I’m simplifying things here so I don’t have to go into complex psychology). Babylon is associated in the Jewish mind with slavery, hence the use of such symbolism. This is why it says this of the Whore of Babylon in Revelation:

“Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.”

As to the original point of this post: it’s entirely true that most Christians don’t act like Christ, and so aren’t truly deserving of the title ‘Christians’. The sermon on the mount couldn’t make the idea that non-violence is a fundamental part of Christianity any clearer, and yet it is universally ignored. This is because most people aren’t truly interested in being like Christ. Rather they are interested in getting personal benefits from religion, which is why they pick and choose what they heed and what they ignore. Much of this process is unconscious, because most people have no awareness of their own inner workings, and so cannot escape this state of automatism.

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-Mohandas Gandhi

I believe this quote is selfexplanatory

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I can’t share the same vantage point as I am certain that a guy named Yeshua actually existed and caused a hell of allot of issues.
The simple reason that I believe this is that the circumstances of his culture were ripe for a spokesman such as himself.

The Jewish ruling power (religion was also their politics) was corrupted and the Romans weren’t much better, so the common man didn’t have anyone to really turn to for a feeling of empowerment, or to feel like they had any sort of power.
However, Jesus comes along and talks about how the priests and Pharisees are not needed to talk to God and that everyone else has the ability to talk to God personally through him, Jesus.

Well, that’s a HUGE political move for the Jewish. That takes the right of power from the priests, which don’t forget were paid ALLOT for their roll of talking to God for everyone, and by extension of being the only ones talking to God, had the power of determining Law of governance. Then he doesn’t JUST hand the power to everyone, he further places the power of these people directly to himself and no other person and declares direct line of providence to God, all the while with a representation of liberation.

That’s MASSIVE and dangerous and EXACTLY what I would expect a rebellion to look like for that culture at that time.

People always think of Jesus as a religious hippy, but that is like trying to remove the issue of slavery out of the American civil war; Jesus, because the Jewish culture was so mixed between their religion being their law, was VERY, VERY political and probably led a very difficult and turmoil ridden life.

Don’t forget, followers at the time expected him to take over political power in a war and liberate them from oppression of their leaders and the Roman control; they expected him to take the title of King of the Jewish people.