So in other words, it doesn’t matter what Randi himself believes. He’s just some dude. I’m talking about what we can extrapolate from how the contest is set up, and why. He’s a fraud by default. I don’t care to wonder over the specifics of his character.
This is just incorrect. Academicness is measured by the past and current participation in academic study, not whether you are right or wrong. So check this argument off your list.
Probably because it is, of course, false.
Because psychic powers aren’t real. 
Show me someone who should have passed but didn’t. Apply your own standard then.
Also am I the only one who went on this Vinko Rajic’s website and saw the ramblings of a truly insane person? He seems to think other psychics are manipulating his anal muscles remotely. I mean seriously? This is your guy?
I have no idea who the person who started this thread is, or Vinko Rajic. I just kinda hijacked the thread.
It’s not incorrect at all. This is real life, not in theory. Any academic who enters that contest is done. I seriously cannot believe you would argue that. Then again maybe you have no experience in the academic arena.
The point I’m making is why would anyone even enter a contest that is so clearly and obviously a trap?
Because if they can show themselves to be correct, they will be win a million dollars. You’re inserting intrigue where there is none.
I’ve a degree, so you can stop trying to insult me in that regard.
Any academic who could show psychic powers to be real would both win a million dollars and instantly become one of the most important people in history. Your argument has no weight.
Give me an example of someone who should be able to pass the contest, but won’t enter because it’s a trap.
Also they rejected some candidates. You have to be famous to get considered and you have to undergo whatever processes they consider necessary to keep the testee from cheating. But in fact these processes are antagonistic. Even if it was benign testing, which it clearly is not, we are dealing with skills that are based on subtle human processes, vulnerable to yup various kinds of influences. Once you have an enemy tester involved the problems increase for the testee.
Any true psychic would obviously not be concerned with money, as they can get it easily. Likely more than one million dollars. As I said before, there are high profile psychics who work for billionaires and they are paid way better.
So… any true psychic.
I’m sure the CIA employed psychics make more money in the long term than 1 million, one time.
This is because the first few years all they got was guys off the street wasting time. None of the people they wanted, the high profile guys worth busting, would come on the show and be tested.
And still no one has shown me someone who would pass an honest test but won’t try his because they believe it to be dishonest.
Show me one. Show me someone who has real psychic abilities that go beyond saying they do and taking your money. You said you are SURE that CIA employed psychics are making more than a million dollars. Show me one. You said you are SURE. Not that you have some hunch, you’re sure. So this should be easy for you.
What if I was discovered and trained as a child because of psychic potential? What if I have seen a bunch of things I cannot talk about without getting sued or imprisoned? What if I simply cannot produce the evidence? Does that mean all the assertions pointing to the fact that the Randi thing is an elaborate scam are wrong, because I can’t produce a psychic to you for one of your questions?
Doesn’t seem like it.
Plus how would I even ‘show’ you. I mean… just answer the logistics of how that would occur.
One of my former professors makes a good critique of the weaknesses of testing for psychic functioning in a lab setting and the limitations of the type of experimental evidence that someone like Randi might find conclusive. The subject matter of this lecture is extremely relevant to what’s being discussed in this thread and others like it. Go to the 8 minute mark to skip the introductions.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34EjMHzTkg[/youtube]
Dick Bierman and Dean Radin have done some nice experiments that support precognition - I found one description of these experiments here:
parapsy.nl/uploads/w1/retroc … ucson3.pdf
Note the subjects were not psychics and were not aware, generally, of their bodies anticipatory responses.
Then I’m sorry, but you cannot be believed. If you’re right, it’s a tragedy, but there’s nothing we can do because they’ll kill you.
If you can produce real, physical effects due to psychic powers then there must be real, physical results. So if you can’t produce evidence it’s only because you can’t produce psychic powers.
You act like there’s some overwhelming choir of geniuses claiming Randi to be scamming us when in fact it seems the opposite is occurring.
In regards to the actual question, the burden of proof is on the person making the claims. If you cannot produce psychic powers (or have someone else do it, if you don’t personally have any) then I cannot simply take you on your word. Too much (intellectually) is at stake. This would be huge and deserves the proper rigorous attention, if it’s going to be real.
It depends on the claim. If you say you can talk to the dead, for example, I’d want something more than cold reading and empty words. If you claimed to be able to move physical objects with your mind, I’d like to see you move a physical object with your mind. If you claim to be able to read my mind via telepathy, I’d like to see you demonstrate that. If you can place thoughts in my head from your head, I’d like to see some of that. If you can view images without having access to them, I’d like to see you do that.
It’s not asking much. I just want to see someone actually do what they claim they can do. Now sure, you might not be able to do this over the internet between the two of us, but I’m not the first person to ask questions. Even if you can point to someone else who has done something worth investigating then that’s exactly what we should do.
Here’s my problem with this entire argument. If you’re right, if psychic powers are real, then it should be a very big deal. If you personally have psychic powers, you should be doing something. You should be trying to convince me that it is real, because it would be important. People could be helped by this, lots of them. Even simple things like dowsing, if it were real, would be massively beneficial. Instead all we see are charlatans taking money from people in grief trying to talk to their dead relatives because they don’t know any better.
I believe I’ve read some of both of their work, and I don’t think they’re charlatans. But I also seem to remember that many people tried to replicate their experiments and got inconclusive results. To me, this at best suggests that its worth looking into more rigorously. At worst it suggests their experiments were a fluke. But science doesn’t work on my whim, and I’ve love to see these experiments successfully replicated and documented and accepted into scientific discussions. But for now, we’ve been truly unable to demonstrate any precognition above the level of chance. I’m open minded, certainly. I remember reading those and thinking “Well shit, there it goes. Let’s figure out how this stuff works!” And when I read the responses, I realized there was more work to be done first.
I’m watching that video. It’s going to be good, I can tell.
Complete assumption. And it’s wrong. Really think about it. I have a degree too, so I know how many people’s careers rest on the fact that if that were to actually occur, all hell would break loose. It would be the end for a whole way of thinking for millions of people. You could even make the argument the Randi thing was set up by a group of scientists who came to the conclusion, and colluded to make sure the paradigm didn’t shift, and maybe even sold the science or got co-opted into government black ops projects.
From the video:
The source of psi (and this is what I touched on before) is that if you are considering a psychic event then you are implicitly altering that psychic event, or possibility. Or depending on how you look at it, circumventing it.
So, like I said, a group of doctors - and a community online of insane ‘skeptics’ - against 1 person is usually going to make them fail.
This is exactly my point: the only reason this isn’t possible is because more people don’t truly consider the possibilities of different topics. There is a reason something like the Tarot has been around for 1000’s of years. Certain things work, but certain groups basically don’t feel that you are worthy of the information because, hey, most of the public is cool to believe that they are smarter than those 1000’s of years, and of course they know better. I am of the opinion that it’s kind of demonstrably true. People don’t really -want- to believe. They look at Crowley or someone and just discount claims at the first opportunity, and Crowley and these high occultists write books specifically designed to scare off people who are not thinking with the faculties seemingly required to wield this (considerable) power. I’m obviously not trained by the government, that was just me being goofy, but I have seen and dealt with actual psychics. It’s not like it’s just the same world, and then you can hear thoughts. It’s an entirely different dimension, basically.
I honestly question whether or not we are ready as a society. And if we are not, then maybe we deserve to be ruled.
Oh I get it, it’s SO true that we can’t know it or we’ll all die, got it. Psychics are bound by morality to never show anything true, else people go insane!
You’re going to have to do better than that. We’ve had paradigm shifts bigger than this. Evolution being one example, and understanding the mind being another. This would just be more of the same. “The world isn’t ready” is not an answer. If it’s true, the world can’t stand not to have it.
Yes, we’re insane and you’re normal, sure.
Dude, in all seriousness you should watch the video. It’s really interesting.