Civilization and Terrorism.

I am sitting in a small room located about two blocks away from one of the great museums in the United Sates. From my dining room window, I can see the tower which was transported by the Rockefeller family from France to New York for the specific purpose of housing a world-class collection of medieval art. Surrounding this great museum, now called “The Cloisters” (a division of the MET Museum of New York) and its priceless antiquities, is one of the poorest neighborhoods in the city. This is, of course, yet another irony in a time and place filled with great ironies.

There are some people who deplore the mere existence of this museum and suggest that it should be closed and its contents sold, so that the proceeds might be turned over to the poor. But there are many ways of being poor. Most people realize that such a sale would only impoverish every citizen of this metropolis, especially its poorest citizens.

The inescapable presence of that tower in my life has made it into a symbol. Like it or not, I see it every day. So it has come to symbolize, for me, everything I associate with the word “civilization.”

What is civilization?

Well, I remember that the great British art historian, Kenneth Clark, raised exactly this question during the seventies in a PBS documentary, then devoted fourteen weeks and a thick book to trying to answer it. Even more time and effort would be inadequate, of course, to the task of defining civilization. Like American Supreme Court Justice Potter-Stewart seeking to define obscenity, we might just shrug our shoulders and say simply, “I know it when I see it.”

I see civilization in the contents of that museum: in paintings and sculptures, in beautiful buildings, or in films, books in libraries and bookstores, even in jewelry and clothing, in the way fashionable women wear colorful scarves and arrange their hair as they stroll down Fifth Avenue. There is civilization also in the small gestures of civility that make up our daily lives, in the rituals of our meals and forms of greeting. And all civilizations have a history which alone makes them understandable.

All of these things are connected somehow to often unarticulated and unexamined aesthetic and ethical ideals that we assume, that we feel to be present in our lives, without finding it necessary to make them explicit in any way – ideals by which we live our lives, by which we establish, through time, a continuity with the past.

There is no people on earth with a greater experience of the challenge of protecting their civilization, as a legacy to be handed down to their children, than the Jewish people. There is no people that has faced greater obstacles in the effort to hang on to their civilization as a set of ideals that are “defining” even as they are “to be defined by” each generation successively, which may be one way of stating the meaning of Jewish history.

That civilization has been in danger for thousands of years. It is still in danger. Yet it is still with us. I think that it always will be – because of the vitality and richness of its symbols and the beauty and power of its ethical wisdom. Those of us who have had the good fortune to attend a Jewish wedding will recall the symbol of a shattered glass goblet bound in cloth. This is a symbol which gestures (among other things) at the pain of life and at the binding qualities of love within that pain.

A people that inherits such symbols will never be destroyed.

I think that Western civilization is now in danger too. Perhaps the best way to understand what “terrorism” is may be to think of it as the NEGATION of civilization. It is the major threat to both Western and Hebrew civilization. These civilizations, of course, overlap and are mutually reinforcing in the contemporary world. It is difficult to draw a boundary between the two, though they are also distinct in many ways. Israel has been coping with this threat for some time. We are beginning to have a sense of what the Israelis have been up against, after 9/11 and our own adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The word “terror” says it all. A person who is terrorized will not paint a picture, nor create a symphony, nor write a book, nor discover a cure for cancer. Terror itself is a weapon against such efforts; and is, thus, damaging in many subtle ways in addition to the obvious ones. Terrorists kill people. Yet they also kill the climate that makes the peaceful transmission of ideas, of wisdom and beauty from one generation to the next, possible. For this, I detest them; and I will always oppose and struggle against them.

I see the Isareli struggle as increasingly similar to the struggle of the free world against the sort of thing that led to recent bombings in France, to the taking of a school in Russia, and to the flying of airliners into buildings in New York a few years ago. The Israeli struggle is our struggle.

Americans sometimes fail to understand what the Israelis have learned over the past fifty years, and very painfully too: Terror is not an instrument of policy, but is an end in itself. It works. It gets concessions and bribes, though we pretend that it does not. It must not be allowed to work. Terrorists cannot be appeased and they cannot be bought off. Those who use terror and grow accustomed to using it – whether they acknowledge it or not – come to derive PLEASURE from terrorizing others, from the sense of importance they gain as a result of instilling fear and taking lives. There is almost a sexual seductiveness about such evil, for some people, so that the attractions of terrorism will not be negotiated away accross a bargaining table. They must be halted. Terrorists must be stoped now.

It is difficult for some of us to appreciate that the currency of civilized life – rational discussion, tolerance, a willingness to understand a hostile point of view – is not recognized as valid in some social settings, where brutal violence still holds sway. It is diffcult to fathom that such efforts at comprehension, far from being respected, are deemed signs of weakness or stupidity. One has to experience an encounter with a person who is utterly without human compassion or concern for others to fully understand what I mean. Novelist John Fowles writes that inarticulateness …

" …is a symptom of cultural breakdown. it means: ‘I cannot, or I probably cannot, communicate with you.’ And that, not the social or economic, is the true underprivilidge [in life]."

" … I am convinced that the fatal clash between us [criminal and victim] was between one who trusts and reveres language and one … who suspects and resents it. My sin was not primarily that I was middle class, intellectual, that I may have appeared more comfortably well off financially than I am in fact; but that I live by words."

I believe that history will judge individuals and nations – ALL of us – faced with the challenge of coping with international terrorism at the dawn of the twenty-first century by whether we manage to make the world safe for civilization, for those who rely on language as the instrument of reason rather than violence to resolve disputes, and are able to pass these things on to our children.

Those of us on the side of civilization (and yes, there is such a side), must not fail in the task that has been set for us.

awesome post.

IMO if we want to stop terrorism, we have to stop groups and religions that breed terrorists. This includes Islam, Mormonism, etc.

here are some teachings from the Qur’an:

* "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5)
* "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya [tax on non-Muslims] with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." (Surah 9:29)
* "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other." (Qur'an 48:29)
* "Enmity and hatred will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone." (Qur'an 60:4)
* Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily God doth see all that they do. (Qur'an 8:37-39)
* And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. (Qur'an 2:193)
* "Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you." (Qur'an 9:123)
* "For he who believes in the Trinity, "the Fire will be his abode … a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemer." Qur'an (5:72-73)

here is something else to realize about Islam, the word Islam means to submit, and Muslim is one who submits, as you can see from above, those who don’t submit are infidels and must be destroyed.

so the question:

is religious freedom a good thing when it breeds such hatred?

You should check out teh book ‘Terrorism For Humanity’ by Ted Honderich, professor of philosophy at UCL for a consideration of some fo teh issues you raise here.

Thank you both for the comments.

John Gray’s “AlQaeda and What it Means To Be Modern” makes some interesting points about the links between western civilisation and terrorism…

in the sense that alqaeda is a deffinitively western-enlightenment phenomena… drawing more on late 19th century revolutionary sentiments than on anything muslim or eastern.

in a sense AlQaeda could be seen as part of A modernization process for that part of the world…

just as western ideas (ie. marxism, capitalism) have been the modernizing influence on the rest of the “east”…

it’s worth looking at…

Yes, I will look at it. I also read recently Paul Berman’s book on terrorism.

What a passionate post, Freddy.

I imagine that the very stuff of civilization is the constant incorperation of danger, yet you want to see it as a problem. Those same forces that were present when civilization was established are the very forces that push it into revolution and growth. The dynamic has not changed. I fail to see how you might seclude a few people from the rest of the world and announce that they are ‘terrorists’ when the very ground you walk on today, once host to American indians who wore small-pox infested blankets given to them by our ‘great political leaders and founders of democracy’ so we could move in and establish our totally fabulous capitalism and breed like rats, gives you the chance to sit there and make such a complaint. Perhaps it took a few broken eggs to make the omelete you call “America,” but it isn’t very pleasant to watch you sit there and eat it…and still complain.

Anyway, it was a good post. Written well. You were always a good writer.

De Trop:

Are you still on the “hate America thing” from the sixties? I guess so.

Here are some words from Christopher Hitchens:

Hitchens goes on to define the quality that makes the Left in this country (and I say this as a life-long arch-liberal), not only irrelevant, but now laughable:

I never thought that you were very original or interesting, intellectually speaking, but I am sad to see you descending into your mental dotage so quickly, like a Bowery stumblebum. Give my regards to the Ayatollah. :laughing:

Yes, I was born in 75 but I like to time travel and adopt the attitudes of various historical periods. Doesn’t everyone?

Aw shucks.

Now, are we going to argue or what? Don’t tease me.

De Trop:

Being caught with your rhetorical pants down, the best you can do is quibble about your age. The “sixties” is a state of mind bearing little relation to chronology or history – or to what I love about GENUINE 68’ philosophy. It is, like most of your posts, a cliche, a banality. “Hate America!”; ask questions later.

This is but further proof of the irrelevance of the Left and an indication that the dreaded George W. Bush will be re-elected. :sunglasses:

Okay, for arguments sake, I don’t like your idea about the museum. I, personally, find the general well being of all classes of people, poor included, to be more important than the privilege to stare at a Rembrandt.

How typical. I assure you that a poor man would prefer a hot meal and a new pair of shoes over the Rembrandt. Unfortunately, as the town is most likely run by successful folks like yourself, building places of entertainment would be more important than housing facilities or soup kitchens, right?

However, your romantic sentiments about that favorite museum are irrelevent to the point. Regardless of such useless segways, what I eventually see is a very predictable and naive interpretation of what ‘terrorism’ might or might not be.

This…

…doesn’t convince me of anything other than the fact that you are having trouble finding characteristics of ‘terrorism’ that cannot be applied to military strategy or war in general as well. ‘Terrorism’ is a financially shorthanded attempt of military force. If a terrorist could afford to finance an entire war, he would do so. It isn’t, as you think it is, a cowardly act of deviance by some few who don’t have any ideals. Nobody terrorizes just for the hell of it…they mean business. It is a very real and serious condition of ‘civilization’ in its many ways of shifting, changing and growing. It only becomes ‘terror’ when there is a majority forced to defend itself against a small minority. This is a matter of numbers, Freddy, not of objective definitions and criterion for ‘terror.’ It is simply the other guy going against the grain that is labeled a ‘terrorist.’

You act as if this civilization that we find ourselves in is the one that was meant to be from the beginning of time. And you want to pretend that it came about without any acts of ‘terror’ being commited in its meanwhile.

De Trop:

I cannot swing the proverbial dead cat – when reading one of your “excretions” – without hitting a banality or two. Please get a new copy of Marx; the old one is worn out from your misunderstandings and misinterpretations and misquotations.

Let’s take it from the top:

  1. The “privilige” of staring at a Rembradnt is given to all in a democratic society precisely so that not only material, but also spiritual, poverty can be meliorated.

Very few people are missing meals in this country. I doubt that you have missed any lately. There are three facilities at which food is provided to those who need it in the vicinity of that same museum, but there is only one Cloisters and only one Rembradt. Regardless of class or economic status, priceless art should be shared. And it is.

After your next trip to a soup kichen, you should visit your local museum, which is free for the poor.

Why do you make the possibly racist assumption that the poor are without aesthetic needs or will settle for midget wrestling as opposed to Rembrandt? For your information, they should have equal access to the finer things in life; and when the revolution succeeds, no doubt they will be allowed to take home that Rembradt for one week each; but until then, public museums are the most equitable and just means of sharing in such treasures.

  1. “Man does not live by bread alone.” A good slogan for Kerry? or Bush?

  2. “Terrorism” is the deliberate infliction of terror on civilians, who are targeted for murder and other heinous violations as an instrument of policy, and it is evil. It is an affront to civilization, which is aimed at putting in place means for resolving disputes that do not involve blowing people up. I am “for” such peaceful means of resolving disputes.

And yes, I do think it is a rather good thing that human societies have tended to become progressively more rather than less civilized, if they have, over the past thousand years or so – and so do YOU, or you wouldn’t be using a computer and asserting your “right” (rights are a recent invention of our civilization!) to free speech in doing so.

  1. I don’t care WHY people use terror as a way of expressing their political opinions and demands. It is a crime to kill people in order to assert your claim that you disaprove of their government’s policies or for any reason.

Terrorists deserve what they get – which is usually killed.

As Christopher Hitchens and others have noted:

Your comment is only one more example of this alarming – especially alarming to those of us who see ourselves as responsible members of the Left – and defeatist tendency. There are as many fallacies in what you write as there are liberals at a thousand dollar a plate dinner for the poor.

All of this will only bring defeat in November. :slight_smile:

it’s a basic moral truism that you are responsible for your own actions before those of others…

so people in the US may be more concerned about ashcroft than osama because for one they are responsible, the other they have near to no control over.

so if someone who represents you in a democracy kills innocent people, that should weigh more heavily on you than something osama does, from a moral stand-point.

the millitary-political origins of osama and alq’ of course make this doubly complicated, because the actions of the US democracy in the past have thrown petrol on that fire… I assume you all know what I’m talking about…

anyway, that aside, the point remains: it is a basic element of morality that one should do what they can to prevent unjust death and misery and terrorism that THEY CAN PREVENT…

those in the world who are feeling or have felt the brunt of US supported terrorism and tyranny, or misguided and perhaps completely cynical millitary actions may feel in their gut a certain “rough justice” at what happened in New York.

I wouldnt share that opinion… for the same reasons that I don’t share the opinion that the Iraqi people should be attacked and occupied…

one more note… just as “rights” are a recent development in western history so is the state monopoly of violence which creates the phenomena of “terrorism” (by designating some forms of violence as such, and others as the right of states)… Anthony Giddens “Violence and the Nation State: A Contemporary Critique of Historical Materialism Vol. 2” is good study of this…

Rob:

Thank you for the taking the time to read and comment on this post.

Let me begin by acknowledging your point that because we are responsible for Ashcroft or Bush (in the sense that these are elected officials in the United States), we feel more accountable for their actions than for Osama bin Laden’s actions. I couldn’t agree more. For this reason, I hope that both men will do their best to “get” Osama and frustrate his criminal organization.

If Osama is killed along the way, that’s fine by me too, though I prefer that he be tried and judged.

The difference between them is that Osama is an international criminal who has targeted Americans – indiscriminately, I might add – for murder in order to make a political point. The other two are officials in a democracy entrusted with the responsibility of ensuring that such things do not happen – or that, if they do, those responsible for such mayhem are brought to justice or otherwise “removed” from the scene, as President Bush expressed it.

I very much hope that the Americans succeed in their efforts. So should you.

We live in a dangerous world that contains persons who are not overly careful about human rights or safety and who hate Americans, sometimes with good reason and often for mistaken or idiotic reasons, and whose solution to their own frustrations or deluded conception of the world is to kill innocent people, like you and your family members, WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT POLICY.

I am against such people – especially when their primary goal is to have you or me thinking about whether we are going to be killed today, so that we cannot think of much else. Israelis have been living this way for some time and, somehow, still manage to abide by normal standards of civility and achievement, which I find amazing. (Incidentally, I am not Jewish.)

If someone you “control,” like a government official who is responsible for law enforcement, kills a person who has killed many others in the effort to apprehend that person, I will not shed a tear. Had one of the 9/11 victims been a member of your family, you would not be too troubled by such actions either.

You speak of the “principles of morality,” I would say that a fundamental principle of morality is that one should do everything possible to prevent indiscriminate killing, even when it is done by people who claim a divine sanction for it, or who claim that when it is Americans who are killed, then it is hunky-dory with God.

Finally, state monopoly of violence is a good thing. The alternative is chaos, the “war of all against all” – which is what governs in the international arena. I am in favor of this state monopoly which is one of the better achievements of civilization.

As for Osama and his cohorts, I will invoke the Bible:

Thanks again for your comments.

Well, Freddy, we’re going to have to settle for being disgusted with each other. I see nothing but blanket statements, personal opinions, and one helluva sales pitch behind it all. I don’t agree with your concept of terrorism, civilization, and I certainly don’t share your enthusiasm about Bush or Kerry. I’ve never voted in my life. I’ve got better things to do…like rearrange my sock drawer.

So let me apologize for replying to your post in the first place.

De Trop:

Your apology is accepted. Please don’t waste my time in the future with more self-indulgent drivel. As for my post, as far as you are concerned, it is “pearls before swine.” :laughing:

According to Schiller:

Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.

I agree.

this is where it becomes tricky… what does this have to do with attacking Iraq? Indiscriminate killing has now been the norm there for some time (on all sides) due to the US destroying the Iraqi states monopoly on violence (an achievment of civillisation I believe you said).

first off everyone has SOME responsibility for government policy in a democracy… and some have good reasons as you note… few western states are attacked for doing “nothing”… this is hard for people to swallow but it is true… noone deserves to be the target of violence but it has its reasons…

most find more careful and pragmatic solutions to the cycle… I’d hold up britain-ireland as an example… it’s a strange thing that britain hasnt attacked ireland outright, or the US for that matter as it refused to declare the IRA terrorists or prevent US cash-flow into that group which regularaly bombed civilian targets in London.

were IRA bombings unjust? yes. was there no reason for these? no.

yes the everyday people are examples of humanity… as are the people of the many states that suffer near-constant violence. I’d suggest you look southward from the US for better examples of such humanity… I think you’d find the situation much more troubling.

as it happens, however, the state of Israel has been for decades ilegaly occupying large tracts of land filled with hopless refugees… they are regularaly (civilians) killed, have their houses flattened, etc etc etc…

its little surprise that there is a cycle of violence there… once again its not “unreasonable” for there to be violence… even if the acts themselves are revolting and indiscriminate…

I quite agree… but I don’t think that there a many situations where futher indiscriminate killing is a solution… especialy cynical opportunist attacks on states that having nothing to do with anything.

the best way to prevent terrorism in the world is to stop participating in it (that tends to make you less of a target for terrorism too funnily enough)

that’s not going to happen in the US case however… because the people in charge don’t really want to stop terrorism… they just want to stop terrorism that opposes their ends…

anyway, I’m sure what I’m writting has put me in the “anti-american” box and the ideological blinkers are shooting up… I’ll leave it alone…

all the best…

Rob:

Thanks again for the thoughtful comments.

You will be happy to know that I don’t have “ideological blinkers” and I probably am best characterized as a social democrat with a strong preference for individual autonomy as regards value decisions. I like freedom and hope that people will have more of it, but I am also “for” social justice, as the politicians say – and not so that my friends can make a fortune building schools for 34 million dollars at public expense that could probably be built for half that sum, that is, if it weren’t for all the money coming back to the politicians.

There is so much corruption in American politics, it just turns your stomach. I am sure that you will agree.

Who said anything about Iraq? You are making some heavy-duty assumptions there, my friend. Since you ask: Anything that results in the removal of a man responsible for the murder of several hundred thousand people, the torture of thousands more, whose plots to control most of the world’s oil supply were never-ending, has to be a good thing for the world. I do not know whether the decision was correct, but once it was made I felt an obligation to refrain from criticizing the troops, though not the president.

To suggest, as you do, that Iraq had nothing to do with anything is ludicrous. Hussein had something to do with most of what was going on in the middle east and I wouldn’t be surprised if he both had something to do with Al Qaeda and double-crossed them.

Whatever people believe about Iraq, however, has nothing to do with anti-Americanism. Reasonable people can disagree about that one.

True, everyone in a democracy has “some” responsibility for policy decisions, but hardly enough to get killed at random for what the U.S. government does internationally. I am pretty sure that if this were to happen to your family members, you might see things my way.

No rational person can condone or tolerate terrorism of any kind, by any faction, any place, ever. The DELIBERATE and INDISCRIMINATE targetting of civilians is not just mistaken policy, it is evil.

To speak of “reasonable” violence is a contradiction in terms to me. Violence may be understandable. It is understandable that people will loose control and do irrational things – like punch out a cop from frustration – but this does not make such conduct reasonable.

Violence is never reasonable. It is never acceptable in a civilized society. The violence of terrorists, in particular, is an affront to civilization and must not be tolerated. Mr. Bush is right about that; Kerry is right when he agrees on this, which is about 50% of the time, the other 50% of the time, he disagrees. He went to the Bill Clinton school of political principle. At least Clinton was only interested in getting laid and posed small danger to national security. Also, he was likable – as long as your sister wasn’t around.

The Israelis have gotten tired of the terrorism and have figured out that there is less of it when they respond with an equal level of hostility. This is brutal and unfortunate, even tragic, but I shudder to think what would have happened in the U.S. under similar circumstances. And the Palestinians can thank Mr.Arafat for most of their troubles, since he has walked away from every peace proposal made to him for twenty years or so.

I hope this clarifies my position for you.

Have a nice day. :wink:

yes but what makes the war “cynical” is US support for Saddam, like taking him off the list of terrorist states in 1982 so that he would be eligible for US aid…

or Rumsfelds being delegated to the middle east to increase relations with Saddam during the supression of the Kurds…

I year after the gassing of the Kurds Bush 1 issued a national security directive declaring “normal relations between the United States and Iraq would serve our long term interests and promote stability in both the Gulf and the Middle East”…

and then lifting a ban on loans to Saddam… and offering advanced technology and biological agents adaptable to WMD…

or Dole’s assurance to Saddam in 1990 that it was the US press, not the administration who were hostile to his reigime…

or their statement in 1991 that “the best of all words” would be “an iron-fisted Iraqi junta without Saddam Hussein”… they then allowed Saddam to put down the uprising against him…

do you watch a lot of fox news perhaps? there is no reason to believe that Saddam, a secular authoritarian, would risk aiding a religous fundamentalist group who want to destroy him… I’d look to Saudi’s and Iran before Iraq if I was looking for people sympathetic to Osama…

yes i think a bad choice of words on my part has lead to a misunderstanding… by “reasonable” i meant that there a reasons for the violence that can be observed and explored… not “justifications” but reasons why it is occuring that make it to some extent predictable (not in specifics but in general…

I’m sure you can think of the sort of things that could be “reasons” for violence to occur… without then condoneing the violence itself… so yeah i think we agree on that…

well both clinton and bush waged unjustified wars, supported terrorist states and groups, and murdered many innocents… I imagine Kerry will do so also if he gets in… Bush and Co. are just much more obviously doing so to the world at large…

the US and Israel have blocked a host of peace initiatives in the reigon… UN242 and UN338 on a number of occasions… Saddats 71 offer… a number of 70’s UN proposals…

these were vetoed or ignored by the US, not by the PLO… although this is rarely well reported in the US…

here are some places to look:

For examples of how rejected Arab peace offers have been eliminated from history in the U.S., see Thomas L. Friedman, “Seeking Peace in Mideast,” New York Times, March 17, 1985, section 1, p. 1 (chronologically listing U.S. and U.N. Security Council proposals, but ignoring all of the Arab proposals prior to those that led to the Camp David Accords of 1978); Eric Pace, “Anwar el-Sadat, the Daring Arab Pioneer of Peace With Israel,” New York Times, October 7, 1981, p. A10 (explicitly denying the facts, and referring to Sadat’s trip to Jerusalem in 1977 as follows: “Reversing Egypt’s longstanding policy, [Sadat] proclaimed his willingness to accept Israel’s existence as a sovereign state”). See also, Edward Said and Christopher Hitchens, eds., Blaming the Victims: Spurious Scholarship and the Palestinian Question, London: Verso, 1988.

For contemporaneous reports of other rejected peace offers by Arab states, see for example, Bernard Gwertzman, “3 Key Arab Countries Link Signing Of Israel Treaty to Overall Accord,” New York Times, August 21, 1977, p. 1. An excerpt:

Egypt, Syria and Jordan have informed the United States that they would sign peace treaties with Israel as part of an overall Middle East settlement. In addition Egypt and Jordan said they would consider a further American proposal that they also take up diplomatic relations with Israel. . . .

If the P.L.O. accepts United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 of 1967, which has been the basis for the negotiations, the United States – but not Israel – will talk with the group. . . . On the issue of the nature of peace the United States said that a settlement should go beyond a mere end of the state of war to include a peace treaty and normal ties between Israel and its Arab neighbors, including diplomatic relations. On the question of the final borders, the United States said Israel should withdraw in phases to secure and recognized borders – as called for in Resolution 242 – on the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts, giving up the land captured in the 1967 war with minor modifications. On the Palestinian question, the United States said there should be a Palestinian “entity” the form of which should eventually be decided by self-determination of the Palestinians.

Peter Grose, “Only U.S. and Israel Are Opposed As U.N. Approves Geneva Talks,” New York Times, December 10, 1976, p. A4 (reporting that the U.S. and Israel alone voted against an Egyptian proposal to convene a conference on the Middle East by March 1, 1977); Anna Safadi, “Fahmy names terms for M.E. settlement,” Jerusalem Post, November 15, 1976, p. 1 (outlining Egyptian Prime Minister Ismail Fahmy’s November 1976 peace offer, with its four conditions for a Middle East peace settlement: “Israel’s withdrawal to the pre-1967 war frontiers; the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; the ban of nuclear weapons in the region; and the inspection of nuclear installations in the area – specifically Israel’s reactor in Dimona”). See also, Donald Neff, “The differing interpretations of Resolution 242,” Middle East International, September 13, 1991, pp. 16-17 (noting that the secret State Department study of the negotiations leading to U.N. 242, leaked to the U.S. journalist and Middle East historian Neff, showed that the U.S. always shared the full Arab understanding of U.N. 242 requiring Israel to withdraw from the Occupied Territories seized in 1967). And see footnote 66 of this chapter.

For a list of U.S. vetoes of United Nations Security Council resolutions involving Israel from 1967 to February 1986 (20 in 20 years), see “Documentation,” American-Arab Affairs, No. 32, Winter 1987-1988, pp. 144-145.

On the position of the Palestine Liberation Organization, see for example, Seth Tillman, The United States in the Middle East: Interests and Obstacles, Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1982. An excerpt (pp. 217-218):

The present leadership of the P.L.O. had been ready for five years, and remained ready, said [Palestine National Council chairman Khalid] Fahoum, to open a dialogue with the United States, and it accepted the West-Bank-Gaza state. . . . In fact, said Fahoum, the P.L.O. accepted all United Nations resolutions pertaining to the Middle East adopted since 1947 and did so “without any reservations.”  “With open mind,” Arafat added. . . .

Arafat spelled out the P.L.O.'s willingness to give de facto recognition to Israel and to renounce violence against it even more explicitly in an interview with Congressman Paul Findley of Illinois, the senior Republican on the House Middle East Subcommittee, on November 25, 1978. . . . Arafat issued the following statement: "The P.L.O. will accept an independent Palestinian state consisting of the West Bank and Gaza, with connecting corridor, and in that circumstance will renounce any and all violent means to enlarge the territory of that state. . . ." Arafat promised too, “We will give de facto recognition to the State of Israel,” and gave assurance as well that "we would live at peace with all our neighbors. . . ." Findley concluded that Arafat’s pledges to him met the conditions for American negotiations with the P.L.O. under the commitment made to Israel in September 1975 and that this justified “immediate talks with the P.L.O.”

“Palestinians Back Peace Parley Role,” New York Times, March 21, 1977, pp. 1, 5 (reporting that on March 20, 1977, the Palestinian National Council, the governing body of the P.L.O., issued a declaration calling for the establishment of “an independent national state” in Palestine, rather than a secular democratic state of Palestine, and authorizing Palestinian attendance at an Arab-Israeli peace conference; Prime Minister Rabin of Israel responded "that the only place the Israelis could meet the Palestinian guerrillas was on the field of battle." The Rabin statement appeared under heading “Rabin Comments on Decisions”); David Hirst, “P.L.O. reaches limit of moderation,” Manchester Guardian Weekly (U.K.), August 7, 1977, p. 6 (reporting that the P.L.O. leaked a “peace plan” in Beirut which stated that the famous Palestinian National Covenant would not serve as the basis for relations between Israel and a Palestinian state – just as the founding principles of the World Zionist Organization were not understood as the basis for interstate relations – and that any evolution beyond a two-state settlement “would be achieved by peaceful means”). In April and May of 1984, Arafat then made a series of statements in Europe and Asia calling for negotiations with Israel leading to mutual recognition; a United Press International article on these proposals was the featured front-page story in the San Francisco Examiner, and the facts were reported without prominence in the local quality American press – but the U.S. national media suppressed the story outright, apart from a bare mention in the Washington Post some weeks later; the New York Times did not publish a word. See U.P.I., “Arafat wants Israel talks,” San Francisco Examiner, May 5, 1984, p. 1. See also, Editorial, “A welcome move by the P.L.O.,” Christian Science Monitor, November 16, 1988, p. 15. An excerpt:

By accepting United Nations Resolution 242 as a basis for Mideast peace, the Palestine Liberation Organization has taken a welcome step toward moderation. Its legislative arm, the Palestine National Council, now endorses a “two state” solution to the Arab-Israeli impasse.

The P.N.C., meeting in Algiers, has eased what had been a rock-bound determination not to recognize Israel. The U.N. resolution specifies the right of every state in the region, including (by implication) Israel, to live within secure boundaries. . . . Under the Palestinian proposal, U.N. Resolutions 242 and 338 (which implements 242) are to serve as a basis for an international peace conference, at which such thorny issues as the borders of a new Palestinian state would be resolved.

Rob:

Thanks for the comments. By way of response, please note:

You begin with some remarks concerning the cynicism of American political leaders who supported Saddam in the early eighties. As you may recall, during that period Iran had taken American hostages, deliberately humiliated American presidents and frustrated the Western world’s interests, posing the sort of danger for the future that Saddam later came to represent all by himself.

It was useful, in a geo-political sense, to establish a relationship with Saddam and use him for our purposes in his war against Iran.

Winston Churchill was quoted at the time of his alliance with Stalin saying: “If the Devil is an enemy of my enemy, then I shall form an alliance with him.” Stalin was useful in the struggle against Hitler – at a time when Hitler posed the greater threat. Saddam was useful against Iran, until he decided to control the world’s oil supply so as to blackmail the West.

Henry Kissinger, who has read and appreciates Machiavelli, said it best: “Nations do not have friends, they have interests.” The same is true of politicians, I suspect, and sometimes those friends are very unsavory characters indeed. Saddam was always unsavory, even when he was convenient. He became totally unacceptable when he threatened the U.S. and its allies.

Rumsfeld found it necessary to wash his hands after shaking hands with Saddam, but he did it for his country. Good man, Rumsfeld. He knows what we are up against in the area. There are not too many “boy scouts” there to form alliances with, and we need those alliances.

The U.S. in the early eighties followed Churchill’s advice and established a relationship with Saddam to balance Iran. The strategy succeeded only too well. Saddam began to commit atrocities that reached the level of crimes against humanity, this created an even greater obligation on the part of the United States to do something about him and protect the energy supply of the West.

So we did.

You have inadvertedly given a rationale for both wars against Saddam. I could not do better myself.

According to The New York Times, and not Fox News, Saddam did, in fact, establish a relationship of convenience with Al Qaeda that never came to fruition because the U.S. learned of it and put some pressure on Saddam in the late nineties – when Clinton could tear himself away from the interns, that is – otherwise, we might have had more devastating attacks in 2001.

Saddam wanted some help in planning the assassination of former President Bush (the First), from Al Qaeda. I refer to George W. as: “President Bush the Lesser.” All of which is even more reason for getting rid of Saddam. (No doubt he will end up owning a restaurant in New Jersey and contributing to the Democratic party.)

Thank you for the admission on the misuse of the word “reasonable.” It is never “reasonable” to resort to violence or to threaten violence merely for political or ideological reasons. Many things which we disapprove of are understandable, like the AIDS epidemic. This is irrelevant to their unacceptability.

Terrorism is a human-made epidemic and the United States is the world’s epidemiologist. Thank goodness.

All American administrations that wish to protect American interests may find it necessary to wage wars. For this reason it is necessary to spend trillions on defense. Intelligence services will be crucial to U.S. security in the future and recent efforts to strengthen and streamline those services are much needed and are very welcome.

Finally, most of your citations are totally irrelevant. It is unlikely, for example, that Israel will endorse a U.N. resolution, like 242, that condems Israel and calls for a Palestinian homeland.

Israel is right morally in this struggle. (The resort to indiscriminate terrorism AIMED at civilians must not be tolerated and/or rewarded, however painful the efforts to stop it may be.)

The continued existence of the Israeli state is essential to America’s vital interests in an important part of the world; and it is a moral imperative (after the Holocaust) that the Israeli State not only endure, but prevail as a living refutation of genocide as a historical principle.

The Western world’s support for Israel – whatever criticisms we express of each other privately – must be firm and unwavering. The British see that. Eventually, the rest of Western Europe will too: for instance, when they wonder where the gas for their Euro-cars will come from and how it will get to them.

I will give the last word to Paul Berman:

I am for the freedom of others. :slight_smile: