classical music. the best music ever.

Having grown up on classical music, I left it for rock and jazz, but now I listen to it
a lot. I like the softer classical music, Schubert, Mozart, Mahler, pachelbel. Listen to it and
you realized how much later composers have stolen from classical music from rock to jazz to
soundtracks. Now many say, that classical puts them to sleep, bores them. If you didn’t have
the attention span of a gnat, you would realize that it beats the hell out
of the modern crap that pretends to be music. How much music created today will be remembered
in a few years, little less hundreds of years like a great deal of classical music and
long after justi bieber and madonna and jay-z have been forgotten, classical music will still
be played. I think the most perfect piece of music ever created is pachelbel’s cannon.

So I say, classical music is the greatest form of music man has ever created or will ever create.

Kropotkin

I’m surprised to hear that, Peter. Most classical music was paid for by the ruling-class elite of europe. Had it not been for kings and queens and dukes and barons, most classical music would not exist. As such, it reflected their political values. I’m glad to see that there is one area in which politics isn’t everything, to you.

By the way, I think that Bieber and Madonna will be forgotten soon enough. Not so sure about Jay-Z.

Dog. That pachebel canon in d major is my shit. I also like that water music or whatever it’s called from handel, even though he did that big jesus opera. I saw the magic flute and la traviata once, which were loaded with lots of good music, but I have to say that when I’m riding in my car, I’d always rather listen to jazz, (even though I’ve played the blues guitar for like 15 years or so. Weird right?

Dude jay-z is the new sinatra, yeah they love him everywhere and since he made it there he can make it anywhere, he used to cop in harlem, all of his dominicanos right there up on broadway took him back that that mcdonalds then he’s up in bed sty, home of that boy biggie now he lives on billboard and he brought his boys with him.

politics isn’t everything, just most everything.

read the history of musicians and you realize that royalty treated
musicians like servants, even those like Bach. Royalty for the most part, didn’t
actually appreciate the music the musicians put out. One clown whose name escapes me,
thought one of mozart’s opera had far too many notes in it, Mozart, seriously. the history
is the history, but the music, that will last forever.

Kropotkin

Smears: Dude jay-z is the new sinatra, yeah they love him everywhere and since he made it there he can make it anywhere, he used to cop in harlem, all of his dominicanos right there up on broadway took him back that that mcdonalds then he’s up in bed sty, home of that boy biggie now he lives on billboard and he brought his boys with him."

K: ok, first of all, even Sinatra is slowly being forgotten. Can anyone here even name a Sinatra song off the top of their head?
Doubt it. secondly, Jay-z will be history in a few years. Most music of the last 100 years has been forgotten and rightly so.
The stuff that will last will be the Beatles, miles davis, grateful dead, eagles and U-2. If there is a kind god, kenny g will rot in
hell forever, forgotten.

Kropotkin

Dude those are jay-z’s words not mine.

Fly me to the moon.

Fuck Kenny G.

I saw the grateful dead 2 days in a row in 1995 before the singer died. Excellent stuff.

Peter - I can assure you that Sinatra is not being forgotten.

Ks one of those guys living in the past.

I think classical music produced a great many musical innovations in terms of harmony, chord progressions, the aesthetics of cacophony and song structure.

I also think, however, that a great many musical innovations that are arguably just as important have been produced afterward.

There are certain songs which are just really good at touching your soul. That, I think, is the point of music – it’s primary target is your emotions, and so a song or, yes, even a genre should be judged by its ability to evoke feeling. I certainly think that, among all genres, classical music has a very high percentage of emotionally intense songs. I also think that there are songs and styles of song that have been produced in the last century that evoke emotions not really touched on by classical music, atmospheres so incredibly beautiful that the history of music would be notably drabber without them, atmospheres that weren’t possible in classical music, or at least weren’t thought of.

The relationship of classical music to some modern types of music is much like the relationship of realism in painting to some of the more modern styles of painting. Yes, realism was all fine and good and produced some absolutely amazing painting techniques and some of the greatest painters in history participated in that kind of painting, and many of the greatest works were of the realism sort, but since art has moved on from realism we’ve achieved much different kinds of beauty that realism just couldn’t accomplish.

And besides, anybody who says that, of all modern bands, U FUCKING 2 WILL BE REMEMBERED is a douche. U2? You serious? U2? Come on, everything this guy said was just made moot by that. If U2 is going to make it in history as among the greatest bands of our time, George Bush will make it in history as one of the best presidents. U2 my ass.

Dude I’m not even a big U2 fan, but those bitches have been worldwide dropping hits since I was a kid, and never having owned one of their albums, I still probably know the words to 10 or so songs or theirs.

Don’t get me wrong, they’re certainly popular and had some nice hits. I don’t think that’s what creates the kind of legacy we’re talking about here, though. I remember words to a lot of Red Hot Chili Pepper songs, but I’m not here saying they’re going to be as important to the history of music as Bach. In fact, they might even stand a better chance than U2.

flannel jesus, like U-2 much. just kidding.
not a huge U-2 fan myself, but of bands we will be listening to in
100 years, U-2 will be one of them. I love, the who, and I don’t think
many of their songs will be listen to 100 years from now.

Kropotkin

You’re very out of touch, I’ve got to tell you.

You know who will be remembered by knowing who the young people still talk about even after they’re pretty much done as a band. Young people still talk about The Beatles – you’re spot on there. Young people don’t talk about U2 much. You may not be aware of this, and you’re certainly justified in not being aware of it, but they don’t. The people who are 0-5 right now will hear about as much about U2 as I heard about Devo – enough to know their name, but not really bother trying to listen to them.

I’d even say The Who have a better chance of surviving than U2.

I am an old man, almost as old as faust, although I hear
he helped god spell checked the 12 commandments.

As for the young, I have a 27 year old daughter who from
time to time, helps correct me from doddering old age.
She knows the old stuff because I played the old stuff, often
and loud. She knows U-2 because she has heard it since childhood
from radio stations as had most young kids here. is U-2 hip and cool?
nope, but it is good music and will survive. unlike the crap I hear
on most radio stations.

Kropotkin

Peter - if there were radio stations during the classical period, you would have heard a lot of crap then, too. There’s an abundance of crappy classical music. It just doesn’t get played or recorded very much. But even Mozart wrote some crap. in fact, he wrote a lot of crap. And some great stuff, too. It’s the great stuff that we hear on the radio and in concert halls. Mostly. Some of the crap gets out, too.

Tupac will be remembered forever. He’s like classical rap.

Rap is actually folk music. Much of it tells the story of a person or people, of a hero battling against tall odds, or just of the everyday life of someone as they live it. Politics, work, oppression, victory. Rap will be remembered for those rhymes. Maybe not so much for the bitches an’ hos stuff.

Back to the topic (I know it’s long, but I think this is a pretty good post. Give it a shot):
I actually think classical music has a distinct disadvantage in regards to being the best possible form of music, relative to some (not all, mind you) more modern approaches. Allow me to explain:

As I said above, a music can be judged by the strength of emotion it elicits. Now, granted that’s a very subjective measure (aren’t all measures, though, necessarily?). However, I do think that perhaps there is something in human psychology, embedded in each or at least in most of us, that makes us react to music the way we do. Music could potentially be looked at, from this point of view, as a psychological phenomenon. “The best music” is the music that most effectively elicits the kinds of emotions desired by the musician. Obviously every person would react to the same song in different ways or to different degrees, but there may perhaps be some level of consistency between all humans, some semi-universal aspect of music that all people or nearly all people are genetically inclined to find enjoyable.

One of the common distinctions I hear about what separates classical music from modern music is that modern music is more “beat-based” if you will. Modern music, as opposed to classical music, is notably quite repetitive – choruses, loops, etc. Many modern songs (successfully) use a loop that may be only 2 to 4 seconds long, looping throughout the entire song, with very little or sometimes no variations on top of it. This often has the effect of putting the listener in a trance-like state, sometimes called a “groove,” expressed often as the tapping of the feet or bobbing of the head.

Classical music, in contrast, does not have a comparable level of “looping” if you will. I think it would be pretty agreeable to describe classical music as more cerebral. Classical music can also induce the trance-like states, but they’re of a completely different sort I think.

I consider myself a fairly intellectual guy. I read, I converse about philosophy, I’m interested heavily in the topics of rationality and logic and science, etc. Compared, I think, to most people, “cerebral” would be an apt description of me. BUT, in music, this is exactly, EXACTLY, what gives classical music the disadvantage to modern music.

Nietzsche distinguished between the Apollonian and the Dionysian, and he notably put music in the Dionysian category. Dionysus, the god of wine. The Dionysian was correlated with emotions, with fun, with partying, with drinking. The Appolonian, on the other hand, was…well…cerebral. If Music is supposed to be the Dionysian art, then modern music is notably more Dionysian. Just go to a club. Can you imagine people dancing like that to classical music? There may be some small scattering of classical songs that one can imagine people grinding to, but…it’s quite small. What modern music offers is that Dionysian side – it’s DANCEABLE! It’s beat-based. It’s got that groove. The trance it offers is often a very social, outward trance, as opposed to the solitary inward trance of classical.

If music is supposed to be Dionysian, then I would say certain modern kinds of beat-based music (not all, mind you) are fundamentally more pure music than classical. Forgive me if this sounds silly, but perhaps it harkens back to the time when our ancestors sat around in a drum circle, prior to the invention of the violin, the cello, the plethora of variants on the saxophone, etc. Perhaps something in us, something we got from our tribal ancestors, makes us respond in a very strong way to this beat-based music. It appeals to the tribal part of us. Perhaps.

There was a time in my life where I noted how repetitive modern music is, and compared it to how classical music seemed to have much more complicated variations. At that time, I liked the complication of it, I appreciated that. I didn’t want to be part of the lowly proletariat class who’s so easily amused by the repetitive, looping garbage of modern music. I much more preferred to be of the noble sort who listened to the complex harmonies in classical, that only repeated in subtle ways, constantly changing, constantly evolving.

I was about 15 then. I’ve since found that there’s something about the repetition that cannot be overlooked. One cannot just stick ones nose up at it. You can pretend like you’re better than it, but it has this appeal, this fundamentally human appeal, this Dionysian appeal. For all your thinking, you cannot resist a good beat. Hence the motif in music videos of a whole bunch of stiff ass holes in suits hearing a beat and they all, in unison, start tapping their feet. You can tell, something in them doesn’t want to like it, but something else in them, perhaps something more powerful, doesn’t care.

And so, tying this back in with what I said at the beginning, trying to relate music to a psychological experiment – the repeating beat may, it just may, have a psychological power greater than the meandering melodies of classical. It may appeal to something psychologically in us that’s embedded much deeper than our intellectual side. This is the disadvantage of classical music – it’s certainly Dionysian, but it perhaps isn’t Dionysian enough.

When I think of repetitive music that puts me in a groove trance, I usually think of this song first, just thought I’d share. See if you can get into the groove of it, it’s quite enjoyable when that happens:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwjUyrp7-aI[/youtube]

Instrumental music has a charm that a lot of lyrical music can’t match, not necessarily in a bad way, just in a differant way.

If you classical music you shouls listen to some by Fredric Chopin a Polish composer.

Nocturno Opus N°2 - Frederic Chopin
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPvS0g2papI[/youtube]

There’s some modern music thou hthat i thgink retains a similiar spirit they just use more modern implements to make music. Which is fine, they got to have some way to distinguish themselves from hundreds of years of well known music.

One musician who died in 2009 went by the title Nujabes an acronym for his real name Jun Seba and he mad some very good music.

This is one of his most notable works.
Aruarian Dance.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwRGPxCG_Y[/youtube]
Tsutchie also makes some good music.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMn-c17y-Zs [/youtube]