crazy person, while crazy, made a good point. (end quote)
I appreciate the comment, it is my duty to convince as many people as possible that I am crazy…
Indeed, and what of that mother that took a shit load of fertility pills which caused one egg to split into seven. Did the Xtian God cause the generation of six more fraternal twins (clones), or was it the mother who took too many fertility pills?
Hi everyone
New here… and hope i’ll fit in…
Seems to me that “Humans cannot create souls”… is a little thin to begin with… after all when two people (man and woman) “decide” to have a kid… that kid is of their making… rendering it possible for humans to “make” souls…
Now all we’re duscussing is weather the cloning process is a valid method… if this is drawn into question… one could question which position one must assume durring sex to have a baby with a soul, just as easily…
Cheers… 
but the mechanics of the sperm entering the eggs will be the same if you are upside down or hanging from your nipple rings.
not if you clone it. the question is ‘does god require the specific mechanics of sperms and eggs to insert souls’ i believe the fact that a zygote can split into two and create identical twins is solid evidence that god is ok with cloning.
welcome to ilp
what about babies that are born dead where’s their soul?..Isn’t soul your breath?..how else can you bring a dead man back to life?.. Man has gone against nature in raising people from the dead through technology, He has created monsters through technology and called them clones… He says that he’s helping nature survive, by treading over 20 plants to grow 1 tree…or piercing an animals perfect skin with a tag to study it’s reproductive pattern and life span, all in the name of technology. Nature gives life through enjoyment, Technology gives life through work… Man will burn for going against nature…
… 
…
Time is slowly fading y’all, blieve it or not. The invisible force that has been ever elusive Is on the verge of being revealed to all of humanity, and when you realize it it’ll be too late…
730=Crazy too…
…lol…crazy person…
what about babies that are born dead where’s their soul?..Isn’t soul your breath?..how else can you bring a dead man back to life?.. Man has gone against nature in raising people from the dead through technology, He has created monsters through technology and called them clones… He says that he’s helping nature survive, by treading over 20 plants to grow 1 tree…or piercing an animals perfect skin with a tag to study it’s reproductive pattern and life span, all in the name of technology. Nature gives life through enjoyment, Technology gives life through work… Man will burn for going against nature…… …
Time is slowly fading y’all, blieve it or not. The invisible force that has been ever elusive Is on the verge of being revealed to all of humanity, and when you realize it it’ll be too late…
730=Crazy too……lol…crazy person…
You had me going there for a minute. I was starting to think 730=5150! 
stands in a corner rocking back and forth, glaring at the others. You know, I honestly try to make my point come through, but I always seem to come ‘through’ as being a juvenile. Why is this? Any Forum I go to, on any website, I seem to be… lower class… for some bizzare reason. Maybe that it just my Tylonal speaking, but I never can tell.
sorry friend. i couldnt think of any way to respond to this except by saying that i dont believe your doctrines are neccesarily true.
i do agree that what we call a soul is formed by our experiences, and all newborns have roughly the same soul. i dont know about spirit dimensions, maybe thats equivalent to the zero point field which hopefully stores our memories holographically.
Awesome.
Yeah, like you said when the OmniSoul erases our memories and sends us back to the earth, in a life that coinsides with the life we lived morally in our past life. Perhaps memories are indeed stored here… in the ‘zero point field.’ They have to go somewhere.
Hi Future Man
thnx for the welcome… and also… you assume to quickly that sperm entering the egg is good enough for god… if you question one method of creating humans(cloning)… you must also question all others (good ol’ sex)…
If the final authority is GOD… then we have no say in the matter… Egg and sperm… or cloning… in the end god bestowes a soul to those he wishes… of whichever kind
if, however, we are capable of creating souls on our own… then cloning is as valid as anything else… the result is the same… a human made by other humans…
Also… how do you tell if something/someone has soul anyway?
do YOU have a soul? how do you know?
I’m sure a cloned (religious) individual would argue that he/she has a soul…
Define soul… and identify it… Then we can test if clones have souls…
What is with you and “god making it clear”?? 
(you’ve mentioned it before)
If I had to guess, I would say God doesn’t want people raping eachother, but does he write a message in the clouds saying he disapproves? It’s all about free will. …
He just lit the match, its our will that accounts for the five-alarm fire.
As for twins, triplets, etc - I’d consider that “natural” phenomenons. It still takes place through a male/female union. Not microscopes and labratorys. But maybe I’m just being close minded?
exactly. heres me blabbing about the zero point field. and at this point in time this theory is unfalsifiable. and therefore true, right zeno??
i think its possible for all or most humans to eventually realize that hurting other people is wrong. we can say that this isnt true in all cases, but fact remains most of us know exactly how to be moral. and when we see somebody who doesnt, we know that in order to help his future victims, we need to change him. yeah yeah subjective blah blah; be quiet (directed at nobody in particular).
in order for humans to know absolutely anything, there must be consequences. you learn premarital sex is often bad because you are a slut and sex is like a pencil in a hallway, not because the bible.
if there are consequences for cloning, they will be scientifically identified. if we look and dont find any evidence, who cares? if they are scientifically identified as normal in all charactersitics, including serial killing and demonic magic level, then who cares if we have a bunch of perfectly designed normal people running around in our universe? is god gonna be silently annoyed only to punish us in our afterlife for violating a bible quote?
so your saying that god chooses if the kid gets a soul no matter what? like even though i know my sperm is going into eggs succesfully, god will smite it with a miscarriage?
thats a currently unfalsifiable, and therefore viable conclusion indeed. id say its a matter of experimentation. if we someday get to the point where we can make sure that all clone babies are healthy before they get to the abortion point, cloning should produce a baby according to all of science. if god wants to smite them all so that his absolute laws are never broken one single time, like any self respecting omnipotent god would, a careful, abortion-law-following study would see all of those babies become miscarriages for no apparent reason
as for humans ‘creating souls’, id say that a soul is purely metaphysical, purely beyond all scientific contemplation. i think the thing that is completely within our grasp is to start up a fully legitimate human being, and the soul comes from “the spirit dimension”. as long as it looks just like those verifiably natural twin type clones, as long as it has the same body as a normal person, there is no logical reason why it wouldnt also have a soul.
theres no way for god to show us that cloning is wrong unless its compeltely clear through consequences we can see- OR soulles people can be born and act exactly like us and we would never know they didnt have a soul. if somebody lived as a clone for 100 years and did good deeds and everything a normal person would, if god allowed the creation of such a thing, and it did good, …wheres the bad??
and if god does not allow such a thing, for example, if god makes it so that all of his soulless automatons are horrific serial killers, or a significantly higher percentage of them are (for no apparent reason) then we can be sure thats gods omnipotent miraculous hands have zapped us the message.
basically, if we dont SEE the problem, WHERE is the problem? the bible and gods corresponding wrath? i guess so… but dont shut down any labs in my country.
Hi future man
What an odd thing to say… do you conclude that all serial killers are souless beings?
We have serial killers that were created Egg and Sperm… how are we to determin WHY they do not have souls?
Being a “bad” person is in no way a clear indication of the lack of a soul… so even if the “clones” were to display agresive qualities it could be a nr of different rasons… none of which nessesitates the lack of a soul…
In short… we have NO WAY OF KNOWING… None whatsoever… even if a guy with a beard and holes in his hands came down from heaven and said it was evil to clone… He could have been an alien trying to thwart our scientific progrssion… using “our faith” to fool us…
We have no way of recognizing anything devine… we have not experiened divinity… so we can not recognize it…
in short… there is no god… there is no soul… no right or wrong… unless you BELIEVE there is… and then it’s only true for you…
So if the clone were to believe he had a soul… he would have a soul… and no religious person could possibly question it… not without having to make up stuff
“thau shalt not clone” is in the bible!! it really is!! The pope just finished putting it in there!!
If I believe that I am a girl, altough I am in fact a boy, does that make me a girl?
If I truly believe I am the king of all the universe, does that make it so?
Does it?
What if they DONT have souls, and are desitned to an afterlife of nothing? We wouldn’t know would we? We wouldnt see this, and never know of it…so by your logic I guess its okay?
I dont think so…
what exactly is not ok about it? if they have no souls, would they “care” about living an afterlife in the same way that we do?
would you say that god allows completely real human beings just like you and me to grow up only to say, when the clone gets to the pearly gates “sorry son, sinners cloned you. i sentence you to eternal death”
i dont think so.
you could certainly say that god does hate cloning and he gives the clones a soul anyway through his infinite mercy, or also he could let them grow up as emotionless robots. and then he punishes all the scientists who scoffed at his bible and cloned against his will.
id say thats a potential outcome, but dont shut down any labs in my non-bible-based country.
Hi aviemus
No… I fail to see how this relates to what i wrote however…
The reason ur rediculous beliefe in and of itself doesn’t “make it so” is because i can proove the contrary… in fact… you, urself, can prove the contrary…
If a clone were to declare he had a soul… you could not prove the contrary… neither could he, himself…
When a religious person lays claim to his own soul, by saying “I know it in my heart, thank the lord”… a clone could say the exact same thing… and that very same religious person would have no justified means of doubting…
To a religious person, If feeling it in ur heart is not enough to “know” you have a soul… then what is? and how does he (the religious person) know that he, himself has one?
Hi dontgetangry
Hey… here’s a question for ya… what if WE don’t have souls?
What you are suggesting is the equilivent of not going outside ur house cuz you just MIGHT get abducted by aliens…
What is this insane phobia for the unknown we humans have???
If we clone people NOT KNOWING if they get souls or not… we have commited no crime…
If you open the door to ur house NOT KNOWING if it’s rigged to blow the entire block and all neighbors… U’re not quilty if that were the case… !!!
first of all, i’ve read many of your posts…and your “pearly gates” hypothesis is just plain hypocritical. You’ve mentioned on many occassions, how you are completely against everything catholocism is about (except for the golden rule), so why bring up an obviously metaphorical object (p. gates) now?
just to seem slick? sorry…its trite and rather ignorant
secondly, i’m of the belief that once you die, your SOUL goes onto the afterlife. without a soul, you just simply cease to exist…in any world.
so if clones don’t have souls, they would just die, and cease to exist.
you ask the question:
if you were a clone, and brought to life in a world where almost every single human believes that when they die, there is something else waiting for them…wouldnt you be a little distraught?
Clone: - “You mean…I’m just going to disapear once I die?”
Scientist: - “Yes, the rest of us will keep existing in some sense, but you will turn into nothing, and have no relevance in any world, anywhere”
Clone: - "Really? Well…thats cool! 
"
Something tells me…no…thats not going to be the clones reaction. But what do i know? I’m just glad there is something waiting for me on the other side…