Commentary: Legalize drugs to stop violence

legalize killing people to stop violence…

-Imp

Gotta disagree with you on this one. Killing people is immoral. Using illicit drugs is an issue of virtue. Government should only be responsible for the protection of individual rights through the legislation of morality, not virtue. Legalizing drugs would also go a long way toward stopping the socialists since it would cut off the tremendous pipeline of cash to the corrupt while maintaining freedom*. Also, making drugs illegal does not reduce their consumption, in fact the forbidden fruit effect can actually increase their use.

*Freedom is a two edged sword. My definition of freedom has been that it is the right to be as stupid as you want–on your own dime.

just makes no sense at all…
How would legalizing violence stop violence? (momentary brain fart?)

you miss the point that Imp made.

legalizing drugs will not stop drug violence. the violence associated with drugs and the drug trade is only loosely related to its illegal nature; however, the violence inherent in drug use itself, which is not a byproduct of the illegal trade of drugs, would only multiply on a massive scale if drugs were decriminalized.

i think Imp is saying that, just because you make an activity legal, that doesnt change the intrinsic nature of the activity itself. i could be wrong, but at least, thats what im claiming.

Pot heads will be robbing liquor stores and raping thier wives if you make weed legal.

The War on Drugs (Prohibition II) is the same as Prohibition the First. We went from a legal market, to a black market and then back to legal. During the black market was when all the crime and corruption appeared, and it sank back into the sewer when it was made legal again. The black market in drugs generates wealth that we can’t compete with, and some of that wealth corrupts our politics and law enforcement.

BTW, why do you suppose they didn’t pass a Constitutional amendment to legalize the War on Drugs. Because that and social security were test cases to see if the people would care if the Constitution was just ignored. Those were the first steps in its downfall.

LOL! Love it smears.

Well, I guess it must be true if you say it is! As Painful mentioned, during the prohibition, there was a huge spike in violent crime related to the underground alcohol production, distribution, etc. Once legalized, it sharply decreased. How many people are now dying in the alcohol trade? Probably not many. History contradicts what you’re saying here.

And what proof do you have for saying so? Do cigarettes make people more violent? It seems that alcohol has the potential to, but do all drugs cause people to act in the same way?

Would you expand on this? I find it an interesting point.

birds of a feather die together…

-Imp

Imp, TTG, I’m shocked at your apparent position on this. The Drug War is the epitome of a big government infringement of civil rights and personal liberty. Even if it’s stupid to use drugs, shouldn’t government stay out of personal business?

Yes.

my apparent position?

legalize drugs, tax the fuck out of them, but enforce public intoxication laws…

and a second offense dwi should be cured with the death penalty.

-Imp

i SAID that i disagree with the ‘drug war’ and that SOME currently illegal drugs should not be illegal. however, we need to acknowledge a difference between drugs like alcohol/tobacco and psychadelic or ‘hard’ drugs. marijuana is portrayed as relatively harmless (and i agree that usually it is, i smoked for about 5 years); however, there are dangers associated with ANY drug use, and so of course drug use should be at the very least something which people take care to use wisely.

my point is that if you think that to solve drug violence you just need to flip a legal switch and go “ok, were not going to arrest you anymore, have fun”, that will not “solve” the problem of drug violence. first of all, drug trafficking would explode. yes, at some point marijuana and cocaine could be readily available at the local supermarket, but they would still be tightly controlled by government. first, you would need to be likely 21+, like drinking. then you would likely need to be screened somehow, or have some sort of legal ‘ok’ to buy the drug. its purchase would be tracked and logged by government, and criminals would likely not be able to get access to it, due to its powerful nature.

and let me say again, that legalization will not REDUCE demand for drugs. it will increase demand. these drugs that were talking about are very addictive in nature. marijuana not so much, but cocaine, any opiate, amphetamines, those are all VERY addictive. ecstacy and mushrooms not so much either, but along with marijuana their ability to alter your state of mind so drastically would lead necessarily to incidents of impared judgment, violence (more with mushrooms than ecstacy), and plenty of incidents of stoned driving, overdosing and otherwise behavior resulting from poor judgment.

so. my point is that, while it is WRONG for government to just blatantly criminalize some (not all) drugs, your belief that “well if it wasnt illegal, there would be no problems!!” is extremely naive.

…it becomes everyone’s business when the effects of one person’s drug-taking impinges on another’s personal space/civil liberties - why should anyone suffer the aftermathe of someone’s aggresive come-downs? Keeping hard drugs illegal, keeps idiots, I mean, er, ‘people’ in check… O:)

Just look at Amy Winehouse’s behaviour - indiscriminately attacking people, and she can afford the drugs yet still gets come-down rage :unamused: Would I be within my rights to knock her the fuck out with a 2x4, so as to ensure my personal safety from a drug-crazed attack, with the possibilty that I could kill her when I do so…?

I don’t think that possesion of weed, for personal use, should be an arrestable offence though, as the affects of weed aren’t that detrimental to social cohesiveness - this is already the case for possession of weed in the UK, as police time is better spent fighting knife crime and other such socially unacceptable activities + the fact that many high-profile people have admitted to smoking the green stuff/are caught on film/camera doing so…

OK, that makes a lot more sense.

Three Times Great, the argument is more like ‘if it weren’t illegal, there would be fewer problems’. I think Dorky overstates it in the title; booze is legal, and people still get in fights at bars. However, if he only intended the organized violence, gangs and cartels, then I think he’s right, legalizing takes away essentially all incentive to kill the competition.

Mags, I agree with you that it’s everyone’s problems, so I support government doing something about it, I just don’t think that making them illegal, making criminals out of addicts, is the best way to address the problem. Hard drugs are a really, really stupid thing to do, so it’s easy to keep most people from doing them. And clean hard drugs, relatively safe hard drugs, regulated hard drugs, are worlds better than the shit that most addicts get on the street.
It also seems wrong, and I’m curious what the more libertarian-leaning think about this, it seems wrong to make a drug illegal, when it is the acts that the drug is associated with that are actually wrong. It seems like the same case that’s made against guns: guns are used in street violence, violence is bad, so guns are bad. In the same sense, drugs are implicated in XYZ, XYZ is bad, so drugs are bad. But they aren’t, it’s always been that XYZ is bad. In principle, how can we call someone a criminal for the things that we think they might do? That seems wrong to me.

Some 30% of Americans smoke pot, snort cocaine, shoot heroine etc etc
If the law is removed
the same 30% of Americans would still smoke pot, snort cocaine and shoot heroine
6400 lives would be saved
Several million people would be released from prison
Billions of dollars saved in the war on drugs
and put to better use in rehabilitation programs.

Of course no politician would risk his neck making the proposal
A truly concerned politician should say
Lets give legalization a shot for a couple of years
things can’t get any worse than they are now

Where do you get your figures from with the 6400 lives being saved? You’re saying they would be saved if there is a legalization of drugs?

A general question: should all drugs be legalized? If not, which ones specifically and why? Why not the others?

That is how many people were killed in Mexico in the last two years in the drug war

Yes. ALL. Alcohol and nicotine are far more dangerous drugs, by a 100 fold.
The whole drug deal is hypocritical
and always has been
No person in authority has the balls to say so.
Obama is the latest lame-brain pandering to the falsely opinionated morality of the majority
by refusing to acknowledge the obvious solution
As a result the war on drugs will never end.
EVER!
And the costs will continue to rise
FOREVER!

Violence from mushrooms?

A few possibilities:
-The user is extremely violent already. Probably violent when sober also. The mushrooms just release that part of their personality
-The user does not respect the powerful, spiritual nature of the drug. They treat it like a party drug, in combination with cocaine or alcohol. Those drugs, I’ll admit, are violent.
-The user is not mentally prepared or equipped to deal with the revelations. I think this comes from disinformation campaigns which want the public to believe that hallucinogens just make you see cool shit. Images are the least important of the mushroom’s epiphany. Maybe some people aren’t ready to see such naked TRUTH. They fight back against the usurping of their worldview.
-There’s no such thing as a bad batch. It doesn’t exist. It is however possible that you ate Amanita Muscaria, of which the active ingredients are muscarine and muscimol. These are emetic, sedative, and relatively toxic. They can produce visionary experiences, but are for the most part very unpleasant. I can imagine them inspiring violence simply from being frustrated and angry with the feeling it gives the user. They’re also incredibly unreliable in dosage, having a huge variable level of these chemicals. Stropharia Cubensis, and most other mushrooms which are considered ‘psychedelic’, have psilocybin as an active ingredient, which is structurally related to serotonin. These, like with marijuana, are almost laughable to associate with violence or other criminal behavior. :laughing: