Comments about a Previous Discussion

[curious_rina]

Refer to Islamic History, Doctrines,…Questions in the Religion Section if you’re lost.

@Aspacia

curious_rina wrote:

At my old high school, muslim students were allowed to pray. Infact, they were given an empty classroom, in which they could gather and pray. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Of course, it was the students’ responsibilty to get notes they missed via friends or visiting the teacher after school. We had a sign out and sign in system during the prayer hours. There were specific rules, that students were not allowed to leave the school premises during the times they signed out of a class to pray, unless they notify the office. In fact everyone (regardless of religion) had to notify the office when they left school during school hours.
Aspacia, if your school organized a proper system, you’ll see that everything works out well. It doesn’t matter what ever religion kids are of, they will always try to skip school. So, in my opinion, that is a sad excuse.

Okay, the secular school provides a room for prayer, this occurs in many schools during lunch time and supervsion is provided by a credentialed volunteer. Legally, there must be a credentialed person supervising students at all times. What if no volunteer is available?

Also, Muslims leaving the class for prayer causes resentment from many other students as many have argued “Why are they given special treatment?”

If students leave school to pray off campus, the school is still responsible until that child enters his or her home.

I believe the point is made.

I am a teacher and only after teaching did I become aware regarding the many laws regarding teachers and students. This is especially true in the k-12 system, and somewhat true in the college and university system.

Legally, there must be a credentialed person supervising students at all times. What if no volunteer is available?

Ok, this may be a problem. I don’t know much about how qualified a volunteer has to be. I’m guessing a parent of one of the students would not be a credentialed person. Does this credentialed person have to be a teacher?

Also, Muslims leaving the class for prayer causes resentment from many other students as many have argued “Why are they given special treatment?”

This is not a good argument. Students always whine about school. I mean even when Hindu, Jewish, etc… students stay home on some of their religious holidays, other students whine about why do they have to attend school when …… gets to stay home. I mean the fact that tests and assignment dates aren’t planned to not conflict with Christmas Day, Good Friday, etc is also a special treatment. And Muslim students, and other students do ask sometimes “Why do they get special treatment?”. Have you tried explaining that to students who feel offended by these special treatments. Besides, if the students are allowed to pray during their lunch hours, they are not disturbing anyone, or interrupting a class.

If students leave school to pray off campus, the school is still responsible until that child enters his or her home.

Well if a room is available for students to pray, I don’t see why they have to leave the premises. And if parents want their kids home (or at a Mosque) during their lunch break, those parents actually notify the office at the beginning of the year and an agreement is signed. The school is not responsible for the kids during the hours the parents have stated (usually lunch hours), and the student must sign in when he/she returns to school.

I believe the point is made.

Nope, you have not made your point. You’ve stated your concerns but nothing to indicate that some effort was put into the situation. I am thinking that there is too many excuses and too few creative minds. All it takes is a few good ideas, and proper organization.

Peace

[aspacia]

@curious_rina

Refer to Islamic History, Doctrines,…Questions in the Religion Section if you’re lost.

@Aspacia

curious_rina wrote:

At my old high school, muslim students were allowed to pray. Infact, they were given an empty classroom, in which they could gather and pray. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Of course, it was the students’ responsibilty to get notes they missed via friends or visiting the teacher after school. We had a sign out and sign in system during the prayer hours. There were specific rules, that students were not allowed to leave the school premises during the times they signed out of a class to pray, unless they notify the office. In fact everyone (regardless of religion) had to notify the office when they left school during school hours.
Aspacia, if your school organized a proper system, you’ll see that everything works out well. It doesn’t matter what ever religion kids are of, they will always try to skip school. So, in my opinion, that is a sad excuse.

Okay, the secular school provides a room for prayer, this occurs in many schools during lunch time and supervsion is provided by a credentialed volunteer. Legally, there must be a credentialed person supervising students at all times. What if no volunteer is available?

Also, Muslims leaving the class for prayer causes resentment from many other students as many have argued “Why are they given special treatment?”

If students leave school to pray off campus, the school is still responsible until that child enters his or her home.

I believe the point is made.

I am a teacher and only after teaching did I become aware regarding the many laws regarding teachers and students. This is especially true in the k-12 system, and somewhat true in the college and university system.

Legally, there must be a credentialed person supervising students at all times. What if no volunteer is available?

Ok, this may be a problem. I don’t know much about how qualified a volunteer has to be. I’m guessing a parent of one of the students would not be a credentialed person. Does this credentialed person have to be a teacher?

Yes, a qualified person is state certified and fingerprinted, as I am.

Also, Muslims leaving the class for prayer causes resentment from many other students as many have argued “Why are they given special treatment?”

This is not a good argument. Students always whine about school. I mean even when Hindu, Jewish, etc… students stay home on some of their religious holidays, other students whine about why do they have to attend school when …… gets to stay home. I mean the fact that tests and assignment dates aren’t planned to not conflict with Christmas Day, Good Friday, etc is also a special treatment. And Muslim students, and other students do ask sometimes “Why do they get special treatment?”. Have you tried explaining that to students who feel offended by these special treatments. Besides, if the students are allowed to pray during their lunch hours, they are not disturbing anyone, or interrupting a class.

Yes, they do whine, I usually ask if they would like some cheese with their whine. When students stay home, the school is released from any legal responsiblity, and that responsibility returns to the parents. That is, if there is a holiday, or any such occasion that parents allow their children to be home, fine, as I and the school are no longer at risk. Heck, I use to allow my son, and his friends, with parental consent, to have a ditch day and take them all to the lake or a theme park as a reward for great grades, and I do mean the grades had to be great for all concerned for this reward. Even if a parent consented and did not provide proof of great grades I would not take said child.

I do not care if students pray or have religious meetings on their own time such as lunch. The problem I have is allowing them to leave the classroom unsupervised as the school could be sued and cost me my tax dollars if these students are injured. I do view this as special treatment in a secular society. Remember that we do not have Christmas breaks, but winter breaks or spring breaks.

If students leave school to pray off campus, the school is still responsible until that child enters his or her home.

Well if a room is available for students to pray, I don’t see why they have to leave the premises.

Sure, but they must have credentialed supervision, and as a secular Deist, I, and many other teachers would not volunteer for this.

And if parents want their kids home (or at a Mosque) during their lunch break, those parents actually notify the office at the beginning of the year and an agreement is signed. The school is not responsible for the kids during the hours the parents have stated (usually lunch hours), and the student must sign in when he/she returns to school.

Sure, as long as the parents sign a document releasing the school from all legal responsibility while his or her child is off campus or out of class.

I believe the point is made.

Nope, you have not made your point. You’ve stated your concerns but nothing to indicate that some effort was put into the situation. I am thinking that there is too many excuses and too few creative minds. All it takes is a few good ideas, and proper organization.

If I lived in Saudi Arabia would this government respect the fact I am a Deist. No, I would be jailed or deported as this is considered paganism. When individuals live in my land their faith is respected as long as these individuals do not expect special treatment and for the society to change its laws to suit their religion. Hence, I will not travel to Saudi Arabia. Did you know that they regularly shred Bibles in their airports. If you do not like secular laws do not live in a secular society. This fact caused many Mormons to move to Canada because our laws disallow polygamy.

Hey, you and I are both allowed to express our opinions. I love my freedom, my secular society and independence.

[curious_rina]

@Aspacia

Yes, a qualified person is state certified and fingerprinted, as I am.

Ok. I think they need to modify the current credential process because I have been hearing about all these absurd teacher/student cases on the news .

@Aspacia

If I lived in Saudi Arabia would this government respect the fact I am a Deist. No, I would be jailed or deported as this is considered paganism. When individuals live in my land their faith is respected as long as these individuals do not expect special treatment and for the society to change its laws to suit their religion. Hence, I will not travel to Saudi Arabia. Did you know that they regularly shred Bibles in their airports. If you do not like secular laws do not live in a secular society. This fact caused many Mormons to move to Canada because our laws disallow polygamy.

Goodness gracious Aspacia, I’m pretty sure that the kids you teach aren’t responsible for the shredding of the Bible you mentioned or for the beliefs you dislike. With that attitude, you’re probably leaving the kids with no choice but to hate.

Peace

[aspacia]

Curious rina- how on earth is expecting religious individuals to assimilate into a secular society, and not expect special treatment considered hate?

Yes, Middle-Eastern Islamic hypocrisy is a pain, I admit it and students should know regarding this, including the bs our government pulls as well as other governments. It is called being aware.

Also, I teach at the community college level, as I grew tired of the k-12 system. The current L.A. high school race riots probably are a direct result of administrators with the backbone of a jellyfish. They are more interested in their fat paychecks than the students actually learning.