Walking is meditation, done meditatively. But people often need some instruction and that means somebody has to talk. Along those lines…
To repeat, if you’re opening it to anyone who walks through the doors, some will need a little teaching. You might want to consider how and where that is done by the staff if they can’t talk in the facility itself. Also, while I can certainly appreciate the importance of silence, I have had meaningful meditation experiences in the midst of noise, including inside a prison, with all the yelling, clanging doors, loudspeakers blaring, etc., as background clamor. Meditation is broader than silence; and you can meditate by letting the sound be what it is.
I don’t care much for the robe idea, partly because it speaks of conformity and ritual. My point is that mediation is not a ‘special’ experience, but actually rather mundane, ordinary and everyday. Also, you’ll have to keep them clean and in good repair. Of course, that can be one of the reasons for donation boxes and fund-raising.
One other comment…just food for thought.
Perhaps you underestimate the social aspect of any grouping (like at synagogues, temples, mosques and churches) as a draw for people. A facility for meditation is a fine thing, but the communion of the people who attend it matters.
There’s no reason to teach silence.
I call it “meditation” for lack of a better term.
It doesn’t mean the term only refers to the Buddhist ideals of meditation; but instead the broader sense of the term meaning reflection or contemplation.
If people want instruction on meditation techniques; this will not be the place that will teach such.
There are several methods and schools, etc…, that teach such practices; they can go anywhere they wish and learn there; folks like you can teach them.
Here, this place is void of principle, instruction, or guidelines of how to be silent.
It is just expected that people be silent.
How someone wishes to do that is completely up to them.
When I mentioned the concept of staff, I should clarify…the idea of the staff is more like volunteers that simply help maintain the cleanliness and keep of the place.
They are not considered some kind of special person or group that has any sort of better insight to offer.
They are just people that are cleaning the place and if needed, remind people to be quiet; that is all.
Oh the robe bit wrestles with me constantly.
I feel the same way, but there is an obstacle that it helps with.
It removes appearance from being distracting.
I simply cannot figure out a better means of stripping people of their self advertisement (our appearance as we choose it to be) that can easily (by no intention of our own doing even) cause conflict within another persons mind.
I’ve even considered making these robes downright embarrassing and terrible in design just to level the playing field; everyone looks silly.
Hell, I’ve even thought of putting the words, “Please Be Quiet” on the back of every one of them just to push the ridiculousness of the robes further.
I’m not settled on them 100% yet.
There’s a sentence that follows that one that is important:
The communal nature of man is the central point of this place actually.
The point I was making was that religious structures separate humans from humans.
I see religion, spiritually, like the days of segregation in schools in America.
Now, I can’t ever expect for religions to unify into practicing within one single place - though such an idea is becoming more and more common with the rise of more multi-faith community centers - but instead, this place aims to strip the pretense away and get people together spiritually for the simple experience of experiencing their fellow humans spiritually.
As Cheegster said before, like moments of silence in schools…or vigils, or the like.
On the heels of this, let me explain the origins of this idea…perhaps that will help?
The final inspiration came from Japan’s Zen sitting areas where the common person just comes and goes daily to release from the day and connect with their spiritual self among their very busy day.
Along with this was the meditation (meaning deep reflection) upon the way of the Buddhist temples and shrines across China.
These structures are interesting to me because, unlike (at least) American spiritual complexes, these places are pretty loose in format.
People are often just showing up whenever is needed and leave at their will.
Now, I know that they have sessions and plans as well, but along with those the places are generally open to the public at any time.
Further, they are just left open; which brought me to consider structures like Stone Henge.
Not that site specifically, but the concepts of such structures…they are just out in the open and, at their time, were just held that way indefinitely.
There was nothing truly stopping anyone from going to and from there anymore than there was anything stopping anyone from going to and from the lake or mountain.
I liked this idea; I thought that with something like spirituality, especially the kind involving the hope to help bond the common human spirit together, that the ideal would be for any such structure of spirituality to embrace this format…to always be open and always be accessible without pretense to the approach inherently existing by the places existence alone.
I realize clearly why this isn’t done in America; truly, I do.
The risk of damage, misuse, or squatting, is evident.
But I thought that it would be bold to challenge the expectation; to place faith, not in a divine, but in my fellow humans.
To leave the doors open at all times and to simply place faith and ownership of it’s fate in their hands.
To let go of attempting to control it’s keep.
But originally, to go way back, the first inspiration for something like this that I had was when I was about 5 or 7 years old.
My grandparents took a trip to Rome and brought back ye olde classic slideshow of pictures and relayed their lectures from tour guides to us all.
Most of us groaned, but I was fixed in; I couldn’t get enough.
One of the things that just stuck in my mind was the bathroom.
It was a square horseshoe without any division between seats.
They explained that everyone just sat amongst each other, regardless of class, and shat and pissed; all the while chatting amongst each other.
It was so alien from the bathroom society I was familiar with…that was filled with dividers and gender separations and the like.
Now, many European nations don’t follow America’s secluded bathroom society, but at the time…I didn’t know that.
All I knew was that it was a remarkable idea and it just amazed me.
It amazed me because I thought that if you were shitting and pissing openly in communal nature like this; chatting amongst the classes and genders so openly for even the most basic need of hygiene and body function…that the impression of the one’s commonness amongst one’s society is fundamentally far more united than in a society whereby even the bathroom is sliced into sharp divisions of privacy so that only by functional need of finance are they even within the same room.
The impression that I took away was an ideal where community was more linked on more cardinal levels of just even the basic functions in life by consequence of the provisions available.
The Roman bath houses (while controversial in their power supply, yes) were also a further push in my mind at this age.
Later, I read deeply upon Gandhi and admired the ideal of Martin Luther King Jr. (which was far beyond just racial communal equality; that was just the first thing to tackle and the most pressing for his time).
I grew up Christian, and I continued to see the ideals accredited to Jesus as extremely similar in community of his fellow Hebrews; attempting to tear down the divisions in his religious culture and unite them in being a community of Hebrews rather than bickering and attacking segregations.
I grew up looking around my communities and everywhere I looked; it seemed my fellow humans were firmly planting iron gates between each other religiously.
This, I felt, was nothing useful for the endeavor of the human spirit.
How could man be truly spiritual and fulfilled while at the same time cutting his own fellow man out and away from himself?
It reminded me of Jesus’ comments, that I disagreed with (in the context it was presented to me as a child), on cutting off one’s arm if it causes one to do wrong (loosely paraphrasing).
To me, this idea of separation was alien.
To me, I could not reconcile the idea of isolation of one part of ones self to achieve any sort of spiritual wholeness.
Likewise, I could not, and still cannot, reason the isolation of one’s fellow man because they do not agree with one’s own theology, as an endeavor to have spiritual wholeness.
I read deeply into Buddhism and the Dali Lama after reading Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse, not because I was deeply interested in the validity of Buddhism, but because I was interested in Buddha after catching wafts (fictional as they were) from the novel.
To this day, that novel stands more important as a spiritual book to me than any other text that I have ever read.
That book is as close to a holy text to me as any Pali, Bible, Torah, or Quran is to others.
I still read pretty much anything published by the Dali Lama as I get chances to read them; I greatly admire his dream to unite people spiritually, regardless of their religion.
So, to me, I see our current culture in America as riddled with a sickness of religious segregation.
I just desperately want people to feel the connection between their fellow man; to realize the spirit of them; the human connection of the spiritual sense of being human.
I can’t tell someone about it, or explain it.
None of us can.
It’s not a cognitive communication; it’s emotional (so to speak); it’s a sense that ties emotion from one into the other person.
It’s what causes love, in all of it’s forms.
And so, I started putting all of these thoughts together and considered what the best way possible would be to just get people together to breath their spiritual releases in concert without pretense of religious segregation.
To feel the human experience of spirituality without regard to religion.
They didn’t their followers did. As did those who thought hey this faith thing is a great way to control the teeming masses.
And this is the crux of all my badgering . There is no unity across religions how could there ever be? There may be temporary pockets of group unity. All fine and dandy. Then pockets of unity bumping into each other becomes an excuse for internecine war. That’s the human in us! We’re not always so nice and we’re not always so horrible.
If you build it they will come.
Is humanity to be revered or to be recognised for what it is and then move on? Is that what you are actually trying to do?
I fear mass movements to be honest.
Was Jesus a christian?
If that’s what I think of Alaska whose fault is that? Make me think otherwise.
Somebodies most likely not mine. Do things that happen 5000 miles away ever affect you?
A noble cause then.
I like all trees more than I like some humans. If a tree fail it most likely won’t fail on my head. but humans failing? They kill me.
I don’t think it is spirituality that you crave. I think it is fellowship. I know where you are coming from.
Then you don’t have anything to fear about this…it’s not a movement.
That would be like calling a gymnasium a mass movement.
I think you are overly paranoid about this idea more than is needed; I’m not sure if you were seriously damaged by religion in some fashion, but such a place as this poses no threat to anyone really.
And threatening the uncertainty of the future is not really valid.
Nothing is certain. Everything could potentially hurt anyone.
This isn’t about me. If this was ever accomplished; I don’t get to “run” it.
It’s ownership goes to every religious center and scientific center in the town; there is no single person in charge that feels one specific way about religion or reality.
It is about fellowship, but it cannot be misunderstood to not be spiritual.
This idea is about what I see rotting like a cancer in my society and what I think may help some people reunite spiritually as human beings.
I firmly believe in the human spirit as a source of connection between two people.
I revere it.
That is why fellowship is sought after in this idea.
Ouch I deserved that! no doubt that religion does seriously damaged some folks but I don’t think that’s what did it for me.
It’s the lessons of the past that are lending the validity.
You would be amazed what people can misunderstand. Only connect and all that. I get you. Forgive me if my connections are a bit loose at the moment it is down to the approach of the nihilist festival. It reminds me of absent loved ones. So I must do what any self-hating jew must do at Christmas.
I think this works in a society where deference is a continuous thread in daily life, but in western societies, we institutionalize everything. For example, the robe thing: people in eastern countries would intuitively understand that the robe is meant as a symbol of shedding the facades and merely being human. In western societies, the people would want to know if they could buy one and have their name embroidered on the front to show their friends and hang in the closet with the Hooters T shirt. Someone would ask for the owner to inquire about purchasing a franchise and wanting to know how much money could be made off this deal… Every church in town would have someone handing out tracts and invitations standing outside the front door.
What you need is a social milleau that honors communal fellowship, but our society doesn’t stop to smell each other’s rose. We rarely take time for smelling our own roses. It’s a wonderful idea, but trying to put it in practice destroys the intent as it is co-opted by any and every agenda out there. You’re in Alaska in some of the most beautiful country nature can offer, and yet, if your venture had even modest success, Exxon and BP would scramble to create “meditation parks”. to show how much they care while busily destroying the environment - the environment that srrips away pretensiousness and leaves us as humans.
I know you see this because that is why you would try to create the antithesis of “conquering” nature and your fellow humans.
maryshelley:
If we cannot try to make things better, then we might as well shoot ourselves in the head and be done with it.
It’s either that or just roll up into our predisposed societal gestation cages and eat our prearranged Pizza Pockets and McDonald’s in numbed apathy of secluded hope from the ashen dystopia.
Someone should have told Mr. King that his actions might lead to the unfair cases of Affirmative Action.
I mean, since unfair cases of affirmative action have occurred, we can surely look back and see that Mr. King should have never bothered to passively fight for equality of race and peaceful living amongst races right?
Humans will always fuck up.
I don’t think that’s a good reason to stop trying.
Given general observation of our social environment, yes. It isn’t that anyone can devalue those moments of “connectedness” between humans who pause and reflect, it is that the “make a buck” agenda is our pervasive environment. What you propose wouldn’t be devalued, it wouldn’t be seen as having value in the first place except for that small percentage of people who have already become sensitized and appreciate their connectedness. As distasteful as it is, look at the goodwill-toward-men ads currently running on TV right now. It’s enough to make you gag. Watching some rape,pillage, and burn bank showing us warm fuzzies (with their logo imprinted) says everything you need to know about what we choose to focus on. So yeah, what you’re proposing is preaching to the choir - and the choir is listening. But the vast majority of the folks aren’t hearing because they are too damned busy getting ahead. Consider: How many people are actively involved in discussion on a philosophy website compared to facebook or twitter? The first rule you would have to impose is SHUT YOUR FUCKING CELL PHONE OFF!
Stumps, I know what you would have and I could be supportive of such an effort, but only without the illusion that it could make any difference to anyone who isn’t already there. Oh hell, you might pick up one or two, but…
Hey, have you ever been to Ketchikan? Ever been out to the famous Totem Bight Park? It’s really cool if you enjoy tourist trap stuff. But if you’re looking for more, drive on out to Ward lake and on the right hand side of the road is old-growth cedars where sunlight never hits the ground and the sphagnum is two foot deep. There is spirit there and humbleness that no one escapes. It is a place of reverent contemplation. Then drive back into town and watch the cruise ship gawkers wandering around in their L.L. Bean clothes.
While I agree with you; I cannot accept that.
It’s a defiance, and I’m aware of that.
My spirituality is humanity; and as such I must have faith in it - as folly as that may cause my decisions to be.
Hell, I’ve been stolen from or taken advantage of so many times in life because of this actually.
I’ve eaten the bill on flats, had cars stolen that were supposed to be paid for, had thousands of dollars taken from me right under my nose, and even ended up in shelters by consequence of placing faith in others.
But I still do the same; I don’t ever wish to change my approach.
I assume the best potential of everyone until they prove to me directly that they are otherwise.
It’s short-sided, idealistic, and foolish.
I’m aware of that.
People may not change; endeavoring towards places like this may accomplish nothing in grand impact.
In fact, it likely will not.
Most likely, you are correct; those that are already prone will be the only ones that show up to places like this, with the exception of a few.
Maybe so.
But then again; at the least; it shows those people that their faith in community is not alone.
It shows them that there are more people like them out there; more people that are looking for places like this.
That is worth it I think.
The best we can do is to hope to swing as hard as we can and just make enough of a ding that someone else is inspired to take a swing as well.
In fact…that is my guilt.
I’m not sure that I will ever be courageous enough to venture into making such a place as this.
It’s involved, dangerous (socially and monetarily), foolish, idealistic, stupid even, and fruitless in most peoples opinions.
I even have strong doubts that I will ever attempt to pull this off.
And that is where I feel my own guilt.
In not ever trying, I am failing at my own belief; to swing as hard as I can and just hope to make enough of a ding that someone else is inspired to take a swing as well.
As to those ads.
Look it up some time.
Those ads were started by a tycoon to begin with.
Specifically to counter the LDS ads that exactly the same but overtly sponsored by the LDS.
They are intended to teach his view of moral values, which are values of a Conservative Evangelical Christian; specifically one that is interested in the betterment of social economic moral investment in line with such.
His name is Philip Anschutz.
So, in my opinion, those are warped from the beginning because they are carrying within them the agenda to align social economic morality in league with conservative economic morality.
Also…unlike the LDS ads; the FBL ads do not show each community action.
The LDS ads, as corny as they may be, are highly more effective because the LDS church actively seeks out to help people personally in regards to money, food, shelter, spirituality, friendship, and community.
Like all human endeavors; the LDS of course aren’t perfect. They fuck up, absolutely.
But they are highly more effective at getting effective change accomplished within a community than the FBL because they participate directly within the community by being part of the community, and ran by people in the community.
The FBL just throws money at ads and events, and makes not active involvement to work among people in action.
Action; it must be part of what a message carries.
This place would kind of be the opposite of FBL.
It only does action and lacks any message.
The FBL attaches message without action.
In regards to Ketchy;
Yar, I’ve been there. Never went in though; I was younger and in a hurry and seeing those things wasn’t of value since I grew up around the culture.
As to the forest…oh I grew up in Kodiak, Alaska.
I would still live there if there was a supporting market for me to have a family supporting carrier in there…sadly…such options are extremely slim in that town.
There is a place there that I used to go frequently that’s just off the path to Ft. Abercrombie (“Bunker Hill”).
It is the same as the area you are describing in Ketchy.
Hell…there are so many heavenly places in the wilderness of Kodiak that you could spend a lifetime soaking it in; some people do.
I miss that slice of paradise greatly.
sigh
I’m just an idealistic fool.
And I don’t think I’ll ever want to change that.
OK, how about a nibble instead of a huge giant bite? We both know those places of “paradise” that humble us and open us to others. What about establishing small “meditation parks”? I can envision spaces not much larger than a bus stop with a canopy for shelter, seating not conducive to sleeping -ie- chairs, not benches. Add touches of the natural world, rocks and low plantings. Add an entry sign explaining that the space is reserved for silence, and see what happens. Most cities have small unused spaces and would gladly do the dollar-a-year lease just to have someone take care of the grounds. It isn’t as much as your original concept, but it might be a little more doable.
I understand the compelling need to make yourself vulnerable. I only know from long years of experience that connectivity is limited to how much we can afford. Is it worth it? Yes, because every once in awhile, people respond positively to those efforts. Not often, just enough to keep us stumbling along…
You truly are a glutton for punishment! Do one of the parks (least expensive) and wait to see what happens. When there are enough people involved, build another one. Then, when there is a core of active practicioners, a dedicated building begins to make sense. Baby steps… always baby steps - until you win the lottery.
. There is no unity across religions how could there ever be? There may be temporary pockets of group unity. All fine and dandy. Then pockets of unity bumping into each other becomes an excuse for internecine war. That’s the human in us! We’re not always so nice and we’re not always so horrible.
Do one of the parks (least expensive) and wait to see what happens. When there are enough people involved, build another one. Then, when there is a core of active practicioners, a dedicated building begins to make sense. Baby steps… always baby steps - until you win the lottery. 