Complete Oil Independence

cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/17/ … index.html

Al Gore compares being completely oil independent, using strictly electrical and other types of renewable energy, to the space race of the 1960’s.

I could care less what you think of Al Gore as a person, but I am interested to know what you think the result would be of our being completely self reliant for energy in a decade. What effect would it have on the global and U.S. economy? Is it possible? Do the odds equate to that of getting a man on the moon in the 1960’s? Is the main roadblock oil companies, government, or our mindset?

complete pipe dream

prediction- the press hails the obamamessiah as the new kennedy in germany

-Imp

One could argue that many claimed putting a man on the moon was a complete pipe dream.

no, we will have oil independence but we will drill off shore and tap anwr and convert shale to oil and build nuke plants…

but the lefties can exclusively drive the magic cars that run on environmentalist’s farts

-Imp

So you haven’t read the article, then?

As the article states, drilling offshore and in ANWR is a temporary solution to the problem, and some claim wouldn’t be effective for a decade plus. Hydrogen powered cars are closer than you think…as in Honda let 200 people in central California, where hydrogen cell fuel stations are starting to pop up, test drive their new completely hydrogen powered car. Electric powered cars are becoming much more effective.

It is only a matter of time before mankind take the next step and stops using oil. First there was the horse. Then the model-t. Why not the hydrogen powered car? Why not the electric car? The only people I could see resisting are the big oil tycoons.

But we’re getting off on a tangent. Back to the OP.

Did you see that T. Boone Pickens is promoting wind power, stressing that “This has to be done with the urgency that was used when Eisenbower built the interstate highways.” He thinks we can reduce our need for foreign oil by 38% ($300billion per year), and he’s building a $10 billion wind farm in Texas. If more wealthy oilmen followed his lead, putting their money where their mouths are, there could be some hope yet.

d00d,

Not only is it possible, it will happen. I doubt that hydrogen power will be the answer for a variety of reasons. But it will be one of the stop-gap energy sources. I doubt that there will be any one form of energy production that won’t be used, but I’m betting that the high price of oil will spur the development and production facilities for high efficiency solar cells as well as battery storage sytems. Not just for vehicles but for ALL energy needs. Will it be expensive? Initially. But anything that get’s us off the grid is the real wave of future energy production.

Solar cells are now produced in the 25-35% efficiency range - but only for NASA at this time. With oil above a hundred dollars, the incentive to improve efficiency and ramping up production for the civilian market is there. Electric battery storage is now peaked with nickel-metal hydride cells in current production, but lithium-ion is the next step. (your laptop and cell phone now use lithium-ion batteries). There are even newer battery chemistries out there, and one will succeed in the market place. Looking for ways to feed the electrical grid is strictly short-run. The waste of energy in transmission lines is staggering. That is why a roof covered in solar cells, on the car and on the house with efficient battery storage, is where we will eventually end up.

All the conventional energy sources will have to be used in the shortrun, but the future is to use the power of the sun directly, not burning a few million years of stored sunshine…

Anita,

I saw the blurb on the windfarm. While everyone is looking at the energy produced, look at the new jobs that will be created as a result. Instead of working on an oil rig, we’ll have technicians and mechanics installing and maintaining the towers. It’s a whole new employment field. This doesn’t take into consideration the number of jobs created to build the towers and the components. So for every job lost in oil exploration, extraction, and refining, there will be new jobs in the windfarm industry…

JT, do you know much about cars that run on natural gas? I hadn’t heard of that until I read that Pickens article - they mentioned the Honda Civic GX.

Thus showing that Gore hasn’t a bloody clue how the world has actually panned out over the last few centuries and why.

The Space Race was cooked up by the military industrial complex as a derivative of the arms race, just another means of maintaining power and profit. And there’s a reasonable chance we never went to the moon. Or that we did go, but all the pictures and video we’ve seen are fake.

It would collapse the US economy, which needs an international oil trade to maintain the demand for the dollar as a currency. Of all the oil producing countries in the world, less than 10 of them trade that oil in a currency that isn’t the US dollar. The price of oil is determined in dollars.

Like I say, Gore hasn’t a clue, because he doesn’t grasp the economics. Of course, he’s a socialist, or at least an American socialist (i.e. someone calling himself a liberal who has no great ties to what Europeans mean by liberalism or socialism), so he wouldn’t grasp the economics.

Theoretically, yes. There’s enough oil and gas within the US’s immediate grasp that they could survive of it for at least another century, possibly much longer. But it won’t happen, because of the economics around oil.

Unless the plan is to dump the dollar, replace it with the Amero, and create a North American Union.

In truth, the odds are much greater (a break from an oil based economy would see a much more radical shift in American/Western life than a rather suspect image of an astronaut delivering his lines impeccably.

The Federal Reserve, the IMF and the World Bank. The oil companies, the government and the resultant mindset of most people are all in league with these financial institutions, but they aren’t running the show.

I suppose in terms of practicality, it’s probably the government, because they’ve got the legislative power to at least delay any change they don’t want, if not stop it completely.

We could run most cars off water if we really wanted to. And I could be mistaken about this but last time I looked there was an even more abundant supply of water on earth than there was of gas and oil combined.

you can have your cars that run on environmentalists farts, oil will work for everyone else.

-Imp

Siatd,

Oil price pegged on the dollar? At one time, yes. But the pressure on the dollar against other currencies has many financial institutions pegging value on the euro. The power of the dollar is fading rapidly. Look down the road far enough, and Chinese currency is likely to be the currency standard of the future. The west will obviously hang on to power as long as they can, but new economic powers are rising - and it ain’t in the west.

You can’t run cars on water, but you might increase milage by 10-20% using a Brown’s gas conversion unit. The “runs on water” is just hype. A Brown’s gas generator uses electricity from the alternator to perform electrolosis and a continuous stream of hydrogen at low pressure to the combustion chambers. The cars still run on gas. Rather than store ultra clean hydrogen at high pressure, Browns gas is a dirty (oxygen still present!) form of hydrogen that must be burned as it is produced because of it’s instabilty. (Fire in the hole! :smiley: )

Anita,

Any engine that runs on gasoline is capable of running on natural gas or alcohol. There is a dairy operation the runs a poop digester, produces methane, and runs all of their equipment! :laughing: This has been a common technology in Europe for decades. Got cows? :smiley:

Imp,

We’ll use whatever form of energy that is the cheapest in the short run, but the future isn’t looking into the past. Oil isn’t done just yet, but it’s time is limited. The era of cheap energy is over, but technology will provide alternative sources that will be competitive and finally cheaper than oil as oil becomes harder and more expensive to extract. This is one time where history won’t repeat. :smiley:

Let’s see - do the Saudis value oil in dollars? Yes.

Do the Iraqis? Yes, now we invaded.

Do the central Asian states? Yes.

Does Britain? Yes.

Who, of any real importance, values oil in Euros? Venezuela and Iran. And who are top of the list for an invading? Venezeula and Iran.

I did mention ditching the dollar and replacing it with the Amero. And India’s likely to overtake China soon, because the Chinese have little to no culture of innovative engineering. They can build lots of cheap crap faster than anywhere else, but that’s all.

I’ve seen a car running on water. It isn’t just hype.

There are ways of getting hydrogen out of water than don’t involve electrolysis.

media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/ … 92008a.jpg

-Imp

Ohhhhh s**t! That’s priceless. But the Joker isn’t a world class hypocrite, so I guess it kind of a slam on him.