Cool

huff.to/1A8x62J

We need more like this. Media perpetuates and feeds off of fallacy. People feed off of and perpetuate propaganda and ignorance like bacteria feed off sugar.

We need philosophers now more than ever to do the important and relentless work of untangling information and claims that are easy to figure out, but just out of reach of the populace.

You need to be doing more of this.

She only had one embedded premise (about territory not religion) but the rest is valid work.

True it’s not normative or conclusive but it cleans away the noise, which is the first step to getting it right.

It is ignorance, not knowledge, that causes chaos.

The only point I would disagree with on his list is 5. It’s entirely possible that one side wants a political peace settlement, and the other side only wants the total destruction of their enemy. One of the primary problems with the peace process over there is that one side is being asked to give up real land with concrete value, and the only thing the other side has to offer is promises. If you don’t trust the promises, you won’t give up the land, even if you would gladly do it if you thought the promises would be upheld.

Thx for commenting. It’s a good point – but that flaw in #5 does flow from the flawed premise that removed religion from the equation.

Hamas doesn’t want complete destruction of their enemy. They want complete reversal, cessation and protection from the specific behaviors of the secular Zionist Jewish state, the behaviors that specifically interfer with the wafq obligations in scripture. Hamas is impelled by religious edicts and their interpretation. It’s not jews they hate, and it’s not land they want. it’s the secularism and statehood that is interfering with their ability to worship at and protect and maintain the waqf sites designated by Mohammed. That’s why they want control of the land, they’re commanded by Allah to die trying in an uneven war. If Israel was a pluralized theocracy under Torah and Q’ran, I bet it would be a lot more peaceful in that region.

But back to the point – so many are eager to say stupid things, it like school all over again where people raise their hands and spew nonsense, while I sit in back grumbling, thinking why bother. Nobody is right and subtle and all anybody really cares about is saying what they think.

Pls google Hamas mission statement and read it – takes about 30 minutes. The shit they believe is disturbing, but ignoring that they believe it is a huge damper if we ever want to let the fly out the bottle.

Laziness is a big part of it. We all like to sit around guessing at Hamas true goals, but none of us want to read their published mission statement. When you read the mission statement, the “absurd” behavior starts to make sense in context of their mission. This really is about religion. It just happens to be that Islam as a whole is a lot more committed to their faith than Christianity and Judaism is. Many of them want and embrace theocracy. Jews and Christians in history have done the same. This is really about theocracy versus secular modernized democracy. The most loyal and consistent of the three big faiths (Islam) becomes the biggest time bomb when secularism rares it’s head. jews and America turned Israel into a modern Americanized capitalist commercial heathen place, with the occasional believer in a beard. Sounds like a fun place to me – but for serious Muslims, Israel is now the battle ground over everything that matters in the eyes of Allah. Israel was a mistake from the beginning. The secular should come the USA and religious ones should stay there and live in peace with their theocratic god fearing Islamic brothers until “messiah” comes.

One of the things that exacerbates the laziness with regards to finding out what Hamas is about is that these arguments of equivalency- ‘both sides want the same thing, it’s not really about religion, blah blah blah’ were basically true (or a lot closer to true) when it was the PLO running the show and not Hamas. I think people don’t realize just how much the situation has changed since Hamas took over, and they are recycling arguments that they have heard all their lives because from an uninformed perspective, it’s just ‘the same old shit’ over there, so why not make the same old argument?
Israel is a country. They aren’t going to just decide “Alright, well that’s enough of that” and come to the US. They have tanks, and nukes, and a history long enough that their grandparents were born there. Any suggestion anybody makes that involves there not being an Israel will be ignored whether the conception of Israel was a mistake or not. The only possible solution to this is to let both sides fight it out until one is annihilated- and yes, that will mean taking sides, and other countries getting pulled in, and maybe even World War Three. But it’s either that, or what we have now forever and ever. All these peace talks, these resolutions, they are cruel. We have two mad dogs ripping at each other, and every time one gets close to killing the other, we pull back in their leashes so they have to stop fighting and recover…just to let them slip and tear at each other again. These could have been over with a peaceful state of Israel and neighbors that keep a respectful distance ages ago.

Mad dogs don’t have restraint. If Israel wanted to, they could kill everyone in Gaza within the hour. Don’t equivocate. I agreed with everything else though.

I don’t think they’ll all leave and come to America, Canada, UK.

But my point is they have every reason to. If they don’t, you have to ask why. Tanks? Stuff? Inertia? It’s a country?

WHY would secular atheist Jews, the majority, want to live in the middle east, betwixt psycho enemies? There is no good answer. B/c of some real estate covenant in some ancient scroll? No. To protect Judaism as a whole from disappearing? No. To create a place where Jews can walk around and feel confident and proud, surrounded by brothers? Maybe. But as a Jew myself, that strikes me as kind of pathetic. That’s not a good enough reason for a country in Hell. And you can’t make a religious country, that’s generally not religious, and then treat indigenous people like second class citizens. It’s not ethically ok.

America, the great melting pot – is doing far more to protect Judaism and all cultures and religions, affording great freedom while forcing the ideals of temperance, tolerance and liberalism.

Religious Israelis who are zionists are excused, at least they’re being internally coherent w/r/t their faith that Jews are indigenous to and promised Israel by the Big Sky. Secular jews in Israel are just being icky. They feel a sense of home and patriotism and purpose, but they don’t know why. They want to be there b/c they always have been, always being what 70 years?, and they’ve built some great shit, farms, desalination plants, cities, plus they’ve been fed the lie that it’s necessary, given the holocaust, given anti-semitism, given our Jewish blood, when in truth after all is said and done, it’s merely fun to have a Jewish state.

Until, of course, it’s not.

In terms of military force, sure. But they need the U.S., and the U.S. tugs them back on their chain when they get close to doing this. My point wasn’t that both sides are morally equivalent. My point was that if we would have let one dog kill the other decades ago instead of pushing for a peace that clearly can’t happen, it would have been better in the long run. Yeah, it’s pretty clear which dog wins that fight, and which dog is the instigator.

When you say secular atheist Jews are the majority, do you mean they are the majority of Jews, or they are the majority of Jews living in Israel? Anyway, I believe that if the Jews were in the position of the Palestinians, they probably WOULD come to the US or wherever. But they won the 7-Day War, and religious or no, successfully fighting and dying to protect a piece of land that other people tried to take away from you makes it yours. That’s a rule far, far older than the Torah. I think the sense is that the existence of Israel is vindicated by the fact that somebody already tried to take it away from them and failed. There is a sense in which every attack they repel gives them a reason to stay.

The majority of Jews living in Israel are secular and non-ritualistic. That is a fact.

The reason they have and hold Israel is simple, and was in place before the 6 day war. It’s because as long as there is antisemitism, there needs to be a haven for Jews, a place that welcomes them when they feel threatened or persecuted elsewhere. They can always get into Israel, and many Jews feel that cultivating and protecting this option is a necessity if Jews don’t want to die out. If the USA opened its doors to all Jews unconditionally (and honestly, why wouldn’t they? More tech, vaccines and movies the merrier. Plus there wouldn’t be all this conflict in the middle east that also hurts America) Israel would have had less of a reason to exist then and now. Today there isIsrael nationalism and a sense of “we won, it’s ours.” But that’s not what underpins it.

Already been and was waiting at this conclusion.

Of course the world needs more philosophers. It isn’t just ignorance, it’s the illusion of knowledge as well. Ignorance is bad because it buy’s into the illusion of knowledge, which is even worse.

The thing about ignorance is, you can still peak an ignorant minds interest. The thing with the illusion of knowledge/manipulation is that most often do people fight for it, because it is the only thing they know and are comfortable with, it’s a pride/ego thing.

Ignorance is not knowing, not knowing can either lead to viable or illusion of knowledge. It’s a quite blatant knowledge war. A philosopher, well a good one, most often holds a thought without accepting it. Like Aristotle said, this is the mark of an educated mind. To be able to hold a thought/idea without completely accepting it. That is, without looking into it deeper. Philosophy is the love of questioning and wisdom, these lead to answers given the proper tools/subjects.