Could there be a female ubermench?

So I know that being an ubermench is basically just having a penis and acting like a man and not being into religion or logic…pretty much. I’m sure there are plenty of you who’d love to stretch that out into 10000 convoluted words, but let’s be honest…that’s what most of you here seem to take it to mean.

So my question is what if there was a female ubermench? Would she have to act like a man? Would it be impossible because she’s female? Help me out here guys…especially you KTS sockpuppets. I think this is a valid question. So come on in and explain.

No.

That’s racist bro.

Elizabeth Bathory - 15th century Hungary

Now there’s a woman I would of liked to have met. :slight_smile:

Strong, intelligent, ruthless, and powerful women do exist every once in awhile. They’re a fluke of nature however. Very rare.

They’re more of a product of a male dominated environment I think however.

Because she killed people? I imagine an ubermench is the type who gets doors opened everywhere he/she goes. I don’t imagine an ubermench having to kill people.

Nietzsche’s Ubermenschen Archetype is premised upon the need To Become. Females do not have this need, therefore cannot become an ubermenschen. The female nature is self-contained. It does not “need” as males do. This is obvious, because men and women share very little in common.

Men and women have different needs. If you disagree, then you need to justify any shared needs you believe men and women have. And even if men and women have shared needs, that doesn’t necessarily represent the need “To Become” ubermenschen.

Nietzsche was a Transcendentalist, as I am. Transcendentalism is the ideology of becoming, as a resistance against absolution and permanence. It is an ideology predicated on chaos, opposing order.

That is also the foundation of Christianity and other major dogmas and world religions. God, and gods, are all archetypes of how humans ought to become. The premise is, you are not “good enough”, or you are “less than perfect”, in your present state, and so you imagine a “better state of existence”.

This can be simplified.

You have to take a piss. And your instincts tell you that pissing is a “better state of existence”. Therefore you have the need, a neurological impulse, to go and take a piss. You don’t piss in your pants, because you were potty trained as an infant. This represents your morality and social indoctrination. So you go to the bathroom, piss, and feel relief or pleasure. This is called the “Pain and Pleasure Principle”. Your pathology operates on a reward/penalty system. After you achieve your goal, then you return to a state of contentment. You no longer need to piss, for now.

The Ubermenschen state begins after a human fulfills all his needs and desires. You don’t need to piss, to eat, to drink, to have sex, to socialize, nothing. You complete all earthly, human desires. And you exist in an “enlightened” state. You need nothing at all. You don’t need entertainment. Because you are not bored. Maybe, at some point, you don’t even need to breathe or sleep. Humans may eventually make these needs obsolete.

At that point, needing nothing, what will you do? What can you do? What can you imagine? In such a state, this is the origin of the Ubermenschen. He is an entity of no need, no lack, no discontentment, no resentiment. Eastern religions call this the “zen” state or nirvana. Christians call it Heaven. The common idea of this is contentment, sufficiency, satisfaction, wholeness, divinity.

At this point, the ubermenschen is said to enter a state of Creation. After all earthly needs are fulfilled, you begin to create. If the ubermenschen is realized, and a human could possibly become this thing, this entity, this specie, then it would have impossible “powers” by which people measure power today. It could be beautiful. It could be strong. It could be smart. It could have everything that everybody could ever want. But these are all superficial, common, ignoble desires. They are base desires, and the means by which the commonplace, the rabble, the popular, imagine power or perfection to be.

But power is not necessarily a fixed state, nor may permanence necessarily exist.

Therefore, the unbermenschen is a transcendental idealism.

It is man wanting to become god. And it is very powerful, persuasive, influential ideology, because it extends far, far beyond mere desires of the commonplace. It can be as simple as “I want a million dollars, because I want to buy a yacht”. But why do you want to buy a yacht?? “Because I want to impress my friends.” But why do you want to impress your friends? “Because I want their respect.” But why do you want their respect? “Because I want them to look up to me as a role model.” But why do you want to be a role model? “I don’t know.”

The more thorough you are with delving into human psychology, the more obvious base drives fuel the majority populace. People aren’t interested in anything more than what they can imagine. And that separates them from people who, properly, understand the ubermenschen ideology.

If you want to put a name to all this, it’s simply: transcendental idealism.

And it begins with discontentment. Discontentment is its core seed, original idea. Women are not really discontent. One of the main “problems” that women have, is boredom. But this does not correlate with the ubermenschen philosophy, because the ubermenschen also eliminates the need for entertainment. So pop culture cannot properly identify nor integrate Nietzschean ideology.

As Nietzsche said, he was born “too soon”. And he was correct. Once humanity begins eliminating the last of its needs, then a “Last Man” will appear. This is a more prophetic, religious, and spiritual component of his philosophy. But the Last Man is diametrically opposed to the Ubermenschen. The Last Man is, probably, a man consumed by Need, and therefore driven entirely by resentiment.

Ruthlessness. Killing was just a side effect of that.

The female nature doesn’t need to become because it’s self contained.

Yeah man, that makes perfect sense. I can’t believe I didn’t see that myself I mean it’s so obvious.

Ty, mother Teresa was ruthless when it came to helping others. Could she be the ubermench?

I’ll rephrase it so you can understand better.

Women may want to become other than what they are, but they don’t need to.

Men do need to, because that need essentially defines what it means “to be a man”.

Advocatus Diaboli: “You’re wrong because that’s not how I define what a man is!”

I don’t care how you define what a man is. That’s my position, and I’m going to stick with it.

You do realize why I see these as baseless claims based on arbitrary distinctions right?

So having a penis or a vagina is arbitrary?

No.

The way women act is probably more to do with social conditioning than genetic conditioning. There’s no doubt that women are different from men, both physically and intellectually, but the vast majority of behaviours between the sexes are created by how we expect women to act, rather than how they would act without any conditioning. Could there be a female ubermensche, well it’s more likely now than it has ever been, women are allowed to act much more differently than they were centuries ago. Let’s see shall we… :slight_smile:

I read a bunch of Nietzsche a long time ago and I got a good feel for his philosophy, but as far as understanding the specifics and technicalities, I think I came up short. So I’m a little less than confident claiming that I understand what exactly the ubermench is, but from what I understood, he is the next phase in man’s evolution, the man who has achieved a level of superiority over others such that all others are seen and treated as elements in his environment–not that he sees others as inanimate objects subjective to mechanical manipulation–but so weak willed and clueless, so easy to control, that they might as well be herded like cattle. Climbing the social echelon into positions of power (possibly as a great warrior, or tyrant, but not necessarily) is therefore an open path to him, there for the taking if he wants it.

So can there be a female ubermench? Sure, I don’t see why not.

Maybe we should explore what it means to be (fully) human, first, before laying any claims to the uber territory.

Go for it Pandora.

Yes, of course.

To name a few -

Golda Meir, Margret Tether, Indira Gandhi.

There may be some others also.

It is a question of mind and perception, neither body nor gender.

with love,
sanjay

But Zin…all the ubermenches I’ve seen around ILP seem to insist that to be an ubermench you’ve gotta have a penis and you’ve gotta act like a man all aggressive and what have you.

Are you sure?